Please help a retard make drums in sonar

  • Thread starter Thread starter dopey
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dopey

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Hi, I am using sonar 4 producer with BFD drums... I am also using win xp with a motu 896 hd, so I can record seperate tracks.

I have no idea how to record the drums. I pick BFD as a DXi and can make it play loops no problem, and then I record some guitar on top of it while the loops are playing... but I don't know how to even begin recording the drums while this is going on. I get the guitars, but no drums. All there is is the audio track with BFD on it, and then 2 MIDI tracks with nothing on them saying their output is through BFD.

I have sucessfully recorded the mix of everything playing at once (guitars and drums- everything that played out of speakers), but I really need to keep it all seperate.

I know I can drag and drop patterns onto the MIDI tracks now, after some experimentation, but then I have to do that for every pattern? And then repeat for each channel??? that's insane

Can someone help me, I am lost here, I heard something about bounce to tracks, but that doesn't seem to do anything, nor does it even sound like what I am trying to do. Please help.
 
I think this is what you want, but not sure:

Select your BFD track in Sonar. In the Track pulldown menu, choose Freeze, and then Freeze Synth. That should put the actual audio into the track in Sonar.

Hope this helps.
 
hmm, that's interesting, but I guess I need a more basic approach. I guess that processes the MIDI into audio?? I don't know how to get there. I did the freeze and nothing happened. I guess what I want is to have the BFD act like any other instrument that I might have plugged into my audio interface.

I don't know if that's possible though.

If not, I have some remedial learning to do as far as how to set up the drums. I know how to program with the patterns and all, just that I wanted a quick solution for jam sessions that could record the loops that I have playing while we jam. You know?
 
Maybe I need to do a rewire or something?? I am used to using FLstudio, and I know that can be a rewire or a vsti as well. Damn this is frustrating... :confused:
 
Your midi tracks drive the audio DXi. You have to create some midi input to trigger the drums. Once this is done then you can record the results to another audio track and archive the DXi and corresponding midi tracks leaving you with the final stereo drum track.

If BFD is anything like DFHS, then you can actually tell the DXi to generate wav files for each individual drum element. This gives you each drum part on its own audio track with corresponding processing.
 
Insert BFD as a DXI synth. An options box will pop up. Make sure "midi source track" is selected. Make sure "first synth output" or "all synth outputs" is selected.

The "all synth outputs" option will create a seperate output track for every output from BFD, e.g., kick in, kick out, snare top, snare bottom, hihat, etc. The "first synth output" option will create a single stereo output track from BFD's main stereo out.

Sonar will create a midi track and either a stereo audio track or multiple audio tracks, depending on which output option you chose.

In the midi track, select your midi controller as the input device and choose which channel it is on. If you don't know which channel to use, choose "omni" in the drop down midi channel menu for your device. BFD should be the ouput device of your midi track.

In the audio track, BFD should be the input device. The output should be your sound card's outputs or a buss that you have setup in Sonar.

I hope this is clear enough to get you going.

When you "insert a dxi synth", Sonar pretty much sets up everything for you. You can set up the tracks manually by opening the synth rack, adding BFD to the rack, then inserting a midi track and audio track(s). Then just set up your tracks as mentioned above.
 
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with all due respect, I know how to insert DXis



Thanks for all advice. I got the inserting DXis down, no problem... that isn't what I am having trouble with. I am having the problem with "recording" the automated loops that play when I play them through BFD's interface itself- not with drum map manager or anything else. I have been thinking that I could just set the two guitars to have the input echo OFF in sonar (while still recording), monitor them in the room with the every day amps we use to play with, then record a track of the whole mix on my MOTU 896 with the guitars muted again, leaving the mix with only the drums playing (through the monitors). That way I will record the guitars on their own tracks, and then a track of the mix which will be only the drums... vwalla... i think :rolleyes:
 
Dopey should be my name

edit: sorry, i completely missed the question all together. call me dopey, :D . using "freeze synth" in sonar is what you want to do, I believe. you select all the bfd output tracks (dxi tracks) in sonar, right click, and choose freeze synth. this will create seperate wave files in each of bfd's output tracks.

.........or, maybe this is what you need to know............

as far as I know, Sonar can't record the midi info from BFD's internal midi patterns. you really only need ONE midi track. the output tracks (dxi tracks) is where you will apply processing, panning, level changes, etc.

you don't need to arrange midi info as seperate midi tracks. why would you?
 
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When using a dxi drum synth to generate its patterns internally and play to Sonar, the actual arrangement of the drum loops is still in the dxi. To get it to the midi track you need to click "Process"> "apply midi effects" since the dxi is a midi effect module and you want to print it's output to the track.

That sounded pretty cool huh? I hope it works. :)
 
you could try Session Drummer on the MIDI tracks to set up the patterns and then use the Apply MIDI Effects to capture the MIDI to the track(s). then select the MIDI track (first) and the Audio track (w/ BFD second) and then under Edit menu select "Bounce To Track". This will convert your MIDI to Audio on either an existing or new Audio track. You could then do all of the audio type processing you want. If you decide to change the MIDI, simple wipe the drum audio track you created with the bounce and re-bounce the new MIDI to it... It's actually pretty well documented in the help file.
 
I "just" (in February) a Yamaha DD-55. It really helps for playing drums, and it's not expensive. I would recommend it! :)
 
I have a radium 49 MIDI controller that I haven't even tried to hook up to sonar EVER. Maybe I will give it a shot since I know that BFD has some functionality with controllers letting you trigger patterns with keys and not just individual samples. Anyway, I have a couple more things to try now, thanks. I have looked and looked at the help file, but haven't had much luck with it yet. I still haven't had much luck or experience programming drums in sonar yet. I am still kidna hooked on the FLstudio interface when it comes to doing drums... I may end up just making the drums (the final tracks anyway) in FL, and then exporting it to a few WAVs (using the the "BFD ALL" setting to seperate each drum piece), and then adding it to my project in sonar later.

thanks though, I am gonna try the new suggestions as well.
and, travis, no apologies for trying to help dude! I am still really just learning drums here, I just made the first step this week...and loading the dxi was it lol

anyway, i'll tell ya how it goes :o
 
check out sonar's piano roll too. the patterns in bfd can be triggered by midi notes, as you know. in the piano roll, you can enter notes to trigger bfd's patterns, using a mouse. with bfd loaded up in sonar, select the bfd midi track (make sure it's highlighted) and open the piano roll from sonar's view menu. you should see bfd's individual drum sounds and patterns listed beside the on screen keyboard. you can add notes to bars to trigger bfd's patterns. make sure though, that if a pattern is say 1 measure long, that you use a whole note to trigger the pattern. if you used anything less than a whole note, the pattern will get chopped off at the end of the trigger note duration.

here's how i do it: select the bfd midi track, open piano roll from the view menu, select the draw tool (pencil), select whole note, select snap to grid, open snap to grid options (drop down arrow beside snap to grid), select musical time, and select measure. now scroll up to the patterns (above the drum sounds), and add a note to the first measure of the pattern that you want to use. you can string together bfd's pre-made patterns real quick like this. it's alot easier than having to do stuff in fl studio, then export it, then import it...........

make sure that some pattern's are loaded up in bfd before you try to do this or you won't get any sound.
 
Awesome! Thanks Travis! :D

I was trying to do that, but I didn't see a quick shortcut to using the pencil tool, so I went back to just wanting to record the automated loops. Of course, I still intend to do that ( I still haven't tested it- been busy), but like I said, I was planning on going back and making a final drum track later on. It does make sense to just do it in sonar if I can, and I am used to using the piano roll. I still like the playlist editor in FLstudio, but I guess I can live with the way it's laid out in sonar too... ho hum ... heh, just kidding, sonar is the best, I am just still a beginner with it...

Anyway, you mentioned....

make sure that some pattern's are loaded up in bfd before you try to do this or you won't get any sound.
Click to expand...



does that mean that you have to have the patterns you intend to use as your loops in your sonar project laid out in BFD to use them? Or am I misunderstanding you? :confused:
 
dopey said:
does that mean that you have to have the patterns you intend to use as your loops in your sonar project laid out in BFD to use them? Or am I misunderstanding you? :confused:
Click to expand...

In BFD's groove library window, just make sure that any patterns you want to use are loaded. After loading them, look where they are sitting in the window, there is a note name beside each pattern. The patterns don't have to be arranged in any particular order in BFD. Each note will trigger a pattern. This corresponds to Sonar's piano roll; the trigger notes will be the same in Sonar's piano roll. Now when you go into Sonar's piano roll and start adding trigger notes next to the pattern names, those notes will trigger the patterns loaded up in BFD's groove library window. Using the piano roll to trigger the patterns is like using a midi keyboard, only it's automated.

One more thing. Check BFD's play options and make sure that "respond to groove notes" is checked.

Also, before, I said that in the piano roll, the pattern names would be listed beside the onscreen keyboard. Actually, the onscreen keyboard will not be there if you selected the BFD midi track before opening the piano roll. The individual drum names and pattern names will take the place of the onscreen keyboard.
 
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Finally, drums!

Thanks a lot, dude. I have abandoned my concept of random drums for using the method you described Travis. It's not too much work to zoom out on the piano roll and run the paintbrush around a bit. Then I can export that or bounce it to a wav, and move on to another set of patterns if I want. Works for me. :)
 
I'm a SONAR newb and fiddling with all this crap myself.

SO far, with DXI synths, I've always used the "Bounce to tracks" function to get audio out. Then I archive the DXI track so my CPU doesn't get eaten and I can play with the audio ... loop, edit, add fx ... etc.

Does this make sense?
 
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