Pipe organ

S

SteveMcB

Just some guy from NZ
Anyone know anything/have any experience with micing a large pipe organ (you know, large church, probably about 2-storeys high) - mics available include usual low-end stuff of c1, 2xmxl603's, NT1 and a peavey reference omni (and some dynamics, but I'm sure they would suck at the job at hand)

Thanks,
Steve
 
Don't be too quick to dismiss the MXL 603s, or a pair of Behringer omnis for that matter.

Is it going to be a strictly recording session only (no audience), or is it gonna be to a packed house? Do you have control over the session or is it a "don't get in the way" kinda deal.

That will make a big difference in where you place the mics. You're gonna need some tall stands.

I'm gonna need more info if you want more help. What are you recording to? Where will you be able to place the recording equipment? What kind of monitoring will you have? Who will be in charge of the session?
 
Thanks for your reply Harvey,
If I end up doing it (which I hope to), it will be a recording session, no congregation/audience. Full control. Recording to roland vs840ex (8 track, data compressed) via mackie vlz (non-pro) for pre's. I was thinking that the 603's would be the way to go. I would love to get hold of a pair of ecm8000's, but my mic-purchase budget is all used up, and they cost about $100 US each here!!! The room seats about 800 people, and is arranged as a lower main floor (roughly U-shaped with the organ at the top of the U in the middle, very roughly 30x50metres) and a U-shaped mezzanine. Recording equipment can be placed anywhere within reason! Monitoring, well, I have a pair of Yorkville YSM1p's, and some BeyerDynamic DT250 cans. And it will be little inexperienced me in charge of the session.

I was thinking about trying out the middle of the mezzanine, as it's about the same height as the pipes, maybe 30 metres back. One thing that might prove problematic (certainly with omnis) is that the room is a church, which is at the top of the main street of Auckland, so traffic noise may be a problem. Do you think I could get away with closer, say 5metres back from the organ?

Thanks so much for your help,
Steve :)
 
Steve, I'd try the front row of the mezzanine, with the two 603s spaced apart in thirds, or even wider. If the mezzanine is 30 metres wide, start with a spacing of about 10 metres apart to maybe 20 metres apart.

Another trick is to just walk around the room with the organist playing, listening for a spot where the organ and the reverberation have the best natural balance and try setting up your mics there.

Make sure before you start to have the organist pull out all the stops he's likely to use and play a bit of the loudest section of the loudest musical piece that will be played. Set your recorder to hit about -4dB on that loudest section.

Remember when listening thru headphones, if the reverberation sounds right, it's probably a bit too much.

But whatever you wind up doing, you're gonna come away with a great recording, so don't agonize too much about the final placement. Just make sure you don't go into clipping and you'll get a fantastic recording. It's almost impossible to screw up a pipe organ recording. They aren't called "the king of instruments" for no reason.

You'll do fine.
 
Stever,

If possible, could you post a little sample of the result when it's ready? I'd love to hear how it came out!

Oren
 
I'd love to hear it, too. I did something similar, recently, but had to make a lot of compromises:

There was a choir
There was an audience
I had to stay out of the way
I had to sing IN the choir
There was no one to monitor the recording
Organ was undersized (a 17-rank Casavant) in a cold room
Choir was underrehearsed.

I used a pair of MC-012s into a Vs-840, via an Audio Buddy. I sweetened it some after (it was just a vanity recording for some of the choir members, and a learning experience for me).

Here's a sample of one of the solo sections (Vivaldi's Magnificat):

Madonna U. Chorale, 12/8/2002

It's a 96k mp3, so a bit lo-res.
 
Steve -

Don't forget that the lowest fundmental ofa real pipe organ is typically 16hz (from a 32' pipe)... be certain that your mics can capture these lows, and that your preamps can handle the dynamic range. If you can talk the organist into running through the most "dynamic" piece before the "real" recording to check the levels, you'll both be more at ease. Also, NEVER close-mic a pipe (or "pipe-less") organ if you want the resulting recording to sound like a conventional pipe organ. Most organs are mic'ed at a distance so the overall sound includes plenty of room ambience, and less of the the blower and pipechest valve noise. I wouldn't worry too much about car and traffic noise... almost every recording of a pipe organ has it's share of local traffic noises in the background. But be sure to turn off the air conditioning and any flourescent lights. Also, if you've got incandescent lights on dimmers, turn them wide open or off... if the dimmers are part way on, the filaments in the bulbs will hum and rattle loud enough to be captured by condenser mics.
 
Wow! I thought my chances of finding anyone interested in this were pretty close to zero! It's still not confirmed that I will be doing this (it may be part of an album of original music from people at church that I'm recording), but if it works out (and I can figure out how) I will try to post a sample. Thanks all for your input.
 
I used an Audio Technica AT-822 stereo mic to record Dame Gillian Weir playing the opening concert of the Mt. Angel Abbey new Martin Ott Tracker Pipe Organ back in July of 2000 and it came out great. The organ is placed in the back of the Abbey church upstairs and the mic was placed at the front of the congregation and at the side of the aisle on top of a fully extended mic stand (about 8 feet up). This was for two live concerts (one at 2:00 pm and one at 7:30 pm) and was recorded to DAT. Martin Ott then took the tapes and had CD's made from them.

Tom
 
Have done this a few times and it's right that walking around the church while the organist is playing will help you find the sweet spot. Get them to play at a range of volumes (as also stated already).

It’s also a good idea to ask the organist or musical director of the church about the acoustics as they will probably know quite a bit and direct you to some of the best sounding places in the space. Never under estimate local knowledge.

For my recordings I just used one of two set-ups. A Nagra LB with either a pair of Neumann KM184s or with a Pearl MS8.
Your really lucky to have no audience and can therefore position yourself in the best spot without having to worry too much about people tripping over cables etc. But as you’ll typically want your mics to be about 12 feet in the air, the stand can become a bit unstable (dependent upon stand used), and so some good weights on the bottom will help stabilise.

Because I haven’t posted much I can’t put URLs but if you want to have a listen to my results, go to the Internet Archive and search for “john mcelroy” or “all saints church Cheltenham”.

Hope this helps and good luck. Be great to hear your thoughts after the recording and hear the results.

Gary
 
I must learn to look at when posts were made! Didn't see that this one was 12 years ago.

Hope the session went well.
 
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