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nopoetic

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new song ive written...

yellow lines through tinted glass
our photo of an innocence
the track is skipping undisturbed
spinning space in this empty pattern
I've fought my fare share of growth
in a world listed as hopeless
where freedom sits on hooks and wire
I've found myself so less alive

beg me please so speak your will
I'll be dropping night behind me
awkward as a lost child
it seems my arms have come unglued
flat as the world can be
echos made of white noise
those lungs can travel distances
far enough to breath us in

you can download the song here:
http://home.comcast.net/~siriusmusic/files.html

thank you for anyone who comments.
 
i m not able to hear the song for some reason, it maybe my computer. but i must admit i m not sure what you are talking about in your lyrics and how that correlates with your title the photograph. i m not an expert but i will say this if your lyrics needs and explanation outside of the song its probably not a good song.
 
I think your words work as a poem - one with interesting although unclear images. As a song, not so much.

I thought the first two lines were great "yellow lines through tinted glass
our photo of an innocence" I was hooked and looking forward to what I hoped would be an interesting story.

However, you lost me rather quickly when I could not understand what the story was about.
 
just because you cant understand what they mean doesnt mean that the song is bad..these lyrics infact have a deep meaning to me, im sorry no one understood it, but i am proud to have written them. i guess my musicial influences are different than most people here. im not going to lie, these comments really piss me off, just for the fact that people assume that all the time, because they cant understand something, it sucks. its so untrue and so shallow for people to think that. im not trying to attack you people here, and i dont like saying this, but you need a more informed opinion. i dont know you personally, but i cant imagine you listen to all that much great music and probably have never heard bob dylan or neil young lyrics. i dont listen to either person very much, but the people i have to love, are heavily influenced by them. i refuse to believe you people have never listened to the beatles. sorry if im being harsh, i dont mean to be.
 
im also only talking about the first comment, the 2nd seems like a more evenly balanced opinion.
 
nopoetic,

When you put your creation out to be heard you also risk that it will be analyzed. You may not always get the feedback you hope for. I can only speak for myself, but I did try to give you an honest assessment. However, you may have to learn not to take critisism of your art too seriously (I know it is hard not to defend your child).

While one view of art (songs are a form of art) may be that the artist must present thier vision and if no one likes it - so be it. However, one of the harsh truths of the music business is - your music must relate to others for others to like it.

As I said in my original post, I thought your words were interesting (and some were quite good) but I had a difficult time trying to figure out what you were trying to say - as a result I could not relate to it, which made me not "like" it enough to put more effort into it.

In this case, while the words (and story behind the words) means much to you, since I can't understand the story it means nothing to me. I don't say this in a mean way, this is simply my rational thought process.
 
dont wear your heart on your shoulders

nopoetic,

you came to this forum asking for advice about the lyrics you have written and i find it strange that when you get honest opinions you want to start making comments about the skill levels and versitility of the people who are just honestly trying to help you out.

First of all, you know nothing about me to make the comment, "but you need a more informed opinion. i dont know you personally, but i cant imagine you listen to all that much great music and probably have never heard bob dylan or neil young lyrics." you have no clue who or what i listen to. i listen to all types of music and i like all types of music and just because i dont like the lyrics you wrote doesnt mean i dont know what i m talking about.

But oh well do what you want i dont care if your song bombs or make it it wont affect me either way. but i said this before and i will say it again, if your song needs a explanation outside of the song then its probably not a good song. i m so glad i have a since of humor because this really could have pissed me off!!!! YEAH.
 
just curious

Who are some of your influences nonpoetic?
 
Im going the be the black sheep

I really like the lyrics actually. I dont agree with the statement "if your song needs a explanation outside of the song then its probably not a good song." I also dont agree with people saying that it would be good poetry but a lousy song. If I enjoy poetry and I enjoy music why cant I enjoy them together?
I listen to a lot of indie rock. Bands such as Death Cab for Cutie, Built to Spill, Pinback, Modest Mouse, and countless others. I also enjoy folkier stuff like Nick Drake. Maybe its just the genre of indie rock but you will find that there are plenty of songs out there that arent written so that you can easily tell what the author is getting at. I think its intended that way and I personally really enjoy it. Take for example a Pinback song called Offline P.K.

Blown cover.
Break. Fix.
Dead computer.
Up to speed and then rewinding
up another grade.
Blood sucker.
Fat Lip.
Silver Bullet.
Now I need a part to hide in.
Now I need a play.
Wish that I could leave my
room tonight.
The fast attack on my compressors
way to bright.
Think I got the threshold on
to tight.
Just restart and hope that
everything will be alright.
Mail off the rebate and
send it to me.
Its running itself out.
Feel like a two-fer
Lets repair the machine
Its wearing itself out.
It feels like it could
just go on forever.
im testing all circuits, to see if they all work
im throwing on all switches, to see which ones dont work
feel like it could just go on forever...

To me, its nonsense. But I like it. I might be able to tell that he is saying something about his equipment not working but what about that fat lip line or that silver bullet part? Leaving his room tonight? What is he saying? Dunno, dont care. Its more in the delivery for me. Just to hear them harmonize and deliver the music with such amazing accuracy is what does it for me. If you havent heard these guys I would recommend you do. Amazing even if these lyrics arent your ball of wax.
I like what nopoetic and the rest of these guys are doing. It might not ever be on the billboard charts and it might "bomb" as others have stated. I think, however, that you will find that the people who write in this style (myself included) arent shooting for that billboard chart and staying underground is a good thing. Anywho, thats all Ive got. Is there anyone else out there that feels like I do? Im sure there is.
 
that's a reasonable response spelling bee...
what's lacking here is an understanding of what neopoetic is trying to do, and also what we critics might be interested in hearing. i'm not insterested in hearing people bleeding their hearts out. i don't like the obtuse self-centred vibe, you know:"me me me, I I I". however, i also don't like people spouting irrelevance and non-sense. to me, a lyric is very important. from a songwriting point, isn't there also something great about writing something that people can remember and take away with them? something that is completely obscure is very difficult to get a grasp on.
this pinback song seems cool. i like it (even without hearing it). but clearly there's an overtone of electronic-angst :) in it. neopoetic's song is very difficult to grasp overall, hearing it helps a lot, but there's not much i can take home with me.

so... it's not a "nonsense good or nonsense bad" question. i think nonsense is worse. and even if it makes a lot of sense, and has meaning for you neopoetic, i can't get into it... i don't know how to approach it. and if your audience is confused, then you're going to struggle to get support. IMHO :)
 
I like it. It gives you plenty of freedom to interpret. It just doesn't read like a story, which is why people say they get lost in it. I generally draw a line between lyrics and songs. Technically great lyrics make good songs. nopoetic's lyrics make better songs IMHO, but all the hard work (I'm not saying he didn't work hard at these lyrics) has to be put into the music. Without the restrictions of meter and rhyme which he omitted, he can emphasise whatever he wants and really wrap the music around the words.

That doesn't make as much sense as I hoped it would but that's my opinion.

So anyway tell us, nopoetic. What's your own interpretation of the words?
 
National Sandwic - Good response. Its nice to read anything from a balanced perspective. It gives me a chance to see the other side of the fence. It may be something as simple as the fact that we might just listen to different music. There is something for everyone. I like Chevy, you like ford. I hate tuna, you love it. Its a really personal thing I guess. But I do respect anyone out there trying to do something new (not that this is necessarily new) and do it with passion. Im not a huge fan of all the manufactured music and artists out there. Even if that chorus is rockin, someone else wrote it.
Like I said in my previous post, check out Pinback. Some say that their best song is Tripoli but I think its tough to find something that doesnt please. Its one of those groups that takes two times through before it clicks with you.

I guess its time to put myself on the firing line here. Lets see what you all think of some lyrics Ive written recently. Too obtuse for the general crowd? Bland? Pointless? I WILL NOT get offended. Promise. Theyre mediocre at best...

Failure Destination

I wave as we pass
and you´ll smile at last
when you see me so
handsome and cheery

Im yelling and screaming
but you can not hear me
or so goes my only
comforting theory

This double paned glass
labeled "wealth and class"
Realizes the scientists dreams
of finally turning me invisable

Ill never reach you
never ever no never ever
Ill never reach you
Its all over now

Predestined to a failures destination
Smothered in ego fumigation

Im frantically fumbling now
through this dense crowd
trying to drown out
the foreboading doubt that...

Ill never reach you
never ever no never ever
Ill never reach you
Its all over now




Dont have a name for this one yet...

Finished yet not furnished I enter
Blindingly bright and perfectly white
The tall stairs call me up and I obey
These doors are all the same

I find you there all alone in a sterile white mess
Your long dark hair in contrast to your pure dress
We talk for a moment but nothing more,
You just tell me to leave and point at the door

These wall have been built solidly
Constructed by the beautiful institution
Its easy to see how unthreatening they seem
Yet theyre really threatening me

What happened to those deep stories
That frequently came with tears
I was your shoulder perched so low
But as it appears, someone has grown...

up up up way too high
i cant reach that level
im just too backwards and disheveld
i wont reach that level
im just too opposed to blue skies

So, thats some stuff ive scribbled as of late. If you want explinations after youve made some guesses Id be happy to give them. Thanks for reading. SB.
 
Hmmm...I'm going to take my life in my hands and wade in here. Actually I don't care if I get flamed. And I certainly don't mind being proved wrong. You might not necessarily like this, but over the last year or two I've had some PM's from some of the more successful songwriters on this forum (a group to which I make no pretensions to belonging) raising, to paraphrase, the Emperor's New Clothes thing.

Basically, guys, - and this applies to every set of lyrics in this thread - you all have some talent and some nice ideas and imagery, you produce some very worthwhile ideas, but you are too lazy, expect it just to happen, fail to empathise with the listener, are not prepared to really sit down and refine. Lyric after lyric I see here offers unrealised potential, could be honed and rewritten, tightened, made to communicate better, cliches expunged, more care taken.

Look at this from spelling bee:

Predestined to a failures destination
Smothered in ego fumigation

Im frantically fumbling now
through this dense crowd
trying to drown out
the foreboading doubt that...

The last four lines have something, there's something worthwhile there, but he (or she) switches topic - fumbling a crowd and drowning doubt just don't fit together. And you'd need balls of steel to sing the first two lines to anybody in the music business - I'm sorry, but I think they are just lazy songwriting.

Or look at this:

This double paned glass
labeled "wealth and class"
Realizes the scientists dreams
of finally turning me invisable

First two lines are just great. The theme is great. We get the message that class prejudice excludes him. But just imagine singing it. The first two lines will groove, the second couplet you're into Rush territory.

Actually I don't want to pick on Spelling Bee, and I'm sure you'll all hate me anyway, but as a final note, what the fuck does this mean?

I've fought my fare share of growth
in a world listed as hopeless

What's a fair (sp) share of growth. Why would you fight it? Where is the list that has the world marked as hopeless?

OK, I'll put my crash helmet on now. :)
 
An honest thanks

Gary
As I promised, no offense taken. I really do appreciate the critique. Things that dont stand out as me as being poorly written can to others and that is a huge help. Ill try my best to polish and rewrite and remove anything that could seem unclear and post it a little later. This wasnt at all intended as a final draft. But this is great information for me as I push it in that dirrection. You asked about the meaning (Im assuming of the invisibility line) is just that the wealth and class have made me invisible to anyone above me. Because they have wealth and class I no longer exist. It is a confusing way of stating it.

Are they any hints or tips you can give me Gary in the rewrite? Any comments on the second song as well would be appreciated. Please, be vicious, Im not going to hate anyone Ive never met because they didnt like my lyrics on some online forum. Ditch the crash helmet. Have a great one guys.

UPDATE:

Here is a revision I made. I originally went in just trying to fix what Gary pointed out as being flawed but I went a little further. Just trying to be more critical and thinking about what it would sound like when sung.

I wave as we cross paths
And hoping you´ll respond at last
I say a timid hello
But akwardly slow

This double paned glass
Labeled "wealth and class"
Like a transparent wall
A thousand feet tall

Im yelling and screaming
But you can not hear me
Or so goes my only
Comforting theory

Ill never reach you
Please or impress you
Ill never reach you
Never

Im climbing now
Praying that somehow
When I find the top
Youll still be in your spot

Ill never reach you
Please or impress you
Ill never reach you
Never

I feel that these get the message across better but the last verse still isnt clicking with me. Something about that spot and top rhyme doesnt work.
How bout the second one I posted.
 
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its kind of interesting that one song can produce this much of a conversation. i dont like giving the meanings of my songs out because it removes the reader from the song. i want people to get their own meanings from it, and if they cant find one, well i dont really care, its on them. in this case since everyone seems to be fighting...

i wrote this song about art, in a very general sense. the emotions and thoughts it produced in myself and others. its my interpretation of the world around me. with that in mind, re-read them. anyone who doesn't read these with an open mind isn't going to see what i see in them.

as for:
"ive fought my fare share of growth
in a world listed as hopeless"

its a contradiction, and the meaning wasnt that hard to grasp. that specific growth isn't actually a good thing. the growth was the jaded shit all around us, fighting it was a way to keep myself from losing my imagination. it wasnt that difficult to get...if you didnt see that or any other meaning, then its your fault, not mine.

my reaction to what "JaQsonA1" said was maybe quick and harsh, but the whole "i m not an expert but i will say this if your lyrics needs and explanation outside of the song its probably not a good song" comment was ridiclous. if anyone agrees with that, then you're an idiot. im sorry, that was completely close minded and stupid. i shouldnt have to explain anything, if i do, then you people are not looking in yourselves for a meaning, im sorry you cant understand something, that doesnt mean its a bad song. thats just wrong...no other way around it, that comment is completely wrong. im pissed off every time i read it. i dont care how much music you listen to, you're still an idiot.

if you can bring an open-minded opinion then i can respect that, as some of you have done. when you go on saying stupid shit like that, you have lost any respect i can possibly give you. fuck being nice here, im being honest. what you said was ridiclous and i hate you for it.

get what you want from the lyrics/music. i just asked for people opinions on it. im looking for the different meanings you people get here. and i dont care if someone who cant really think for themselves gets it or not, if you dont even try to understand it, then dont bother commenting. i understand if you say something like

"I think your words work as a poem - one with interesting although unclear images. As a song, not so much.

I thought the first two lines were great "yellow lines through tinted glass
our photo of an innocence" I was hooked and looking forward to what I hoped would be an interesting story.

However, you lost me rather quickly when I could not understand what the story was about."

i dont mind that, its honest but its not closed minded and shallow. if you really cant get a meaning out of it, then fine, its still up to you to find your own. but dont judge it because you cant find that meaning.
 
as for the spelling errors, which there are probably a lot. i dont take the time to always revise them. whatever, no importance to the song really. and my influences are too many to count, but similar to that of Spelling Bee. Death Cab, Elliott Smith, Nick Drake, im going to listen to Pinback now, and if i wanted to continue this list, you'd all be reading for a very long time.
 
wow, neopoetic.
there's no need to be defensive like this. if it really means nothing to you what other people think of your songs then you need to answer 2 questions for me:
1. why are you making such a big deal about their reactions?
2. why are you writing songs at all?

Like it or not, your songs will be criticised by everyone you show them to or play them for. And no one will be right or wrong. There is no right or wrong here, but there is the question of whether or not they'd continue supporting you by coming to your gigs, buying your discs, etc. Now I'm not saying write to sell, but I am saying: if you are putting something new out into the world, expect it to generate a reaction; if the reaction is bad, deal with the problem. don't dismiss it. certainly, don't become defensive; it's really not productive.

i've never posted a song here before, but i'll post one now (the first that comes to mind, and easiest to remember :)). simple acoustic guitar accompaniment in 3/4. no title, yet.

-----------------------
out on a limb again
i'm dangling in the wind
i have been caught in a trap
that I laid with my own hand

i hope i see you in the morning

i have been silent for weeks
nothing to say or to think
i'm spending time in my car
driving fast, driving too far

and i hope i see you in the morning
i hope i see you in the morning

i have been searching all day
but she's nowhere to be be found
everything flies at the sun
everything faces the ground

and i hope i see you in the morning
i hope i see you in the morning
----------------------------------

can you smell the melancholy? :) ok. well, er, yeah.
 
btw, gary. i agree whole-heartedly with your comment about lazy songwriting. i'm not referring to anyone here, i don't know them well enough. but certainly bands and singers in south africa don't write with the consideration that they should. there's very much this vibe that "what i've done is good enough", as if simply writing lyrics with chords is the same as songwriting... which I don't think it is.

i think the point is this: there's not enough craftmanship, and it's showing.

i like your song spelling bee, but i get the feeling that you're struggling in the rhyming scheme sometimes? yes, no? the second version's definitely better than the first! :)
 
National S - :) Nice lyrics, reckon you lost your way a bit at the end perhaps? The last verse changes the whole feel and the story - he goes from contemplating whatever mess he's got himself into , and addressing regrets to somebody in the second person, to searching for somebody in the third person. I was rather keen to learn more about how you laid the trap with your own hand - I thought that was interesting.

Sp-Bee. I agree with NationalSandwic, that the second version was better. Felt much more honed and direct. The bit where you're struggling, how about something along the lines of:

Im climbing now
Praying that somehow
I can scale this (something) wall
And you'll see me proud and tal

...well, obviously not that exactly, but that sort of sentiment. Only a thought, anyway.

nopoetic - I am happy to join JaQson in the idiot room, where we can write simple songs (which is many, many times more difficult than writing clever ones that only highly intelligent people can understand) :)
 
Oooohhhh man.... I gotta get my two cents in on this one. What follows is a long rant that is not directed at anyone in particular (so don't get your undies in a twist):

<rant>

IMO, this post is a good example of why many requests for lyrical critiques go unnoticed on the board.

There is a core group of incredible songwriters that frequent this BBS who really have some great insight, and more importantly, experience when it comes to understanding how songs and lyrics work. All too often when they provide honest feedback they are rebuffed w/ indignant, defensive, and dare I say ignorant responses. They are cast in the role of "the man", trying to impose "the rules" on all the "real" artists. After a while who can blame them for not wanting to bother?

<pant, pant>

Furthermore, I couldn't agree w/ Garry Sharp more. Great lyrics very, very, VERY rarely come in one heavenly epiphany. Usually (as in virtually always) they are the result of A LOT of rewriting, tweaking, and then more rewriting. A lot of experience and practice will eventually help you find the fastest route to a finished lyric, but writing a perfect lyric in one sitting is roughly equivalent to hitting a hole-in-one; it virtually never happens.

<pant, pant>

There are two kinds of songwriters (or artists of any ilk for that matter): the kind that create for art's sake (to please themselves and then others), and the kind that create with commercial intent (to please others and then themselves). When you post a set of lyrics on this board for help, you imply by default that you are trying to write something that other people:

a) will enjoy
b) can understand
c) can relate to or care about

If you were writing something only you cared about and could relate to, why bother asking other's opinions? If you find writing about something personal to be carthartic then by all means persue it, but you can't expect other people to understand or care.

<pant, pant>

And lastly, if you post your lyrics and just want cheerleaders then please tell everyone right up front. Doing so will save everyone a lot of time. If, however, you are looking to improve your lyrics and perhaps learn something in the process, try to accept the criticism you requested with an open mind.

</rant>

Sorry if that came off a bit harsh, but I run up against this so often and my angst just needed an outlet. I'm feeling better now. :)

A
 
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