Phase cancellation

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brainwashed

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I recorded two guitar tracks line in. set them on mono tracks and panned them hard left/right. for some reason it sounds like they are out of phase. why?

i checked the main out with the PAZ Analyzer. it confirmed phase cancellation. Maybe i'm missing something but why would that happen?
 
Why not just flip the phase (polarity) of one of the two tracks and see if it sounds better? I know that doesn't answer your "why" question, but it might be an easy fix.
 
or maybe that was the problem in the first place ..........
 
Were the mics the same distance from the sound source for each track?
 
brainwashed said:
I recorded two guitar tracks line in. set them on mono tracks and panned them hard left/right. for some reason it sounds like they are out of phase. why?

i checked the main out with the PAZ Analyzer. it confirmed phase cancellation. Maybe i'm missing something but why would that happen?
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Did you record 2 seperate performances or just two tracks somehow?
If you record two tracks with the exact same sound, it's not that strange for some phasing to happen.
 
yea, but from a line-in source that's completely hard-panned?

that does sound a little odd...
 
Ironklad Audio said:
yea, but from a line-in source that's completely hard-panned?

that does sound a little odd...
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Not if he has something like a stereo chorus or something. Some effects create the stereo effect by having the left side out of phase with the right.
 
still scratching my head

I have tried flipping the polarity of the wave form. that didn't relieve the problem. there are no effects running.

the tracks are not the exact same. recorded seperately. they only go out of phase every once in a while, certain notes, certain parts of the riff.

i will try to get the track uploaded so you can hear what i am talking about.

thanx
 
If it's not the same part that would not be phase' cancellation in the usual use. More likely a combo of 'masking and build-up maybe?
Wayne
 
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Since you panned them hard I don't see how PAZ could be picking up any phase cancellation unless the phase cancellation meter or whatever works off a signal that is summed to mono. But at the same time, I've had this happen tons of times :( . My guess is that the phase cancellation actually happens in the air before it gets to your ears :( .
 
BRIEFCASEMANX said:
Since you panned them hard I don't see how PAZ could be picking up any phase cancellation unless the phase cancellation meter or whatever works off a signal that is summed to mono. But at the same time, I've had this happen tons of times :( . My guess is that the phase cancellation actually happens in the air before it gets to your ears :( .
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I have always been under the impression that for an analyzer to read phasing issues that things have to be paaned. They typically look for differences between left and right. If everything was mono and perfectly calibrated between left and right, your phase meter will never move.

The problem described here is actually very common. If you think of phasing as two similar signals in a dissimilar time alignment, it will help this situation. If you record two tracks seperately but are exactly the same, they will sound fine. When they are different, then waveforms add and subtract from each other. Often times this sort of doubling creates a mild pahsing that makes the source signal sonically appear to be bigger, and wider. However, at the same time if they are at the wrong intervals they can sound thinner and narrower, or depending on their panning, they can even sound thinner and too wide (or distant). This also is common when you have two tracks played the same on two different guitars. The intonation differences can really add some interesting artifacts. It is once again common using the same guitar, but different pickup settings and/or pickups altogether. Using a line in seems to exaggerate this a bit whereas often times micing a speaker will "neutralize" this effect a little. It is important to remeber that phasing is not just a 180 degree opposite thing. Phasing does also have more and less audible effects based on a combination of time, distance and even frequency.
 
xstatic said:
I have always been under the impression that for an analyzer to read phasing issues that things have to be paaned. They typically look for differences between left and right. If everything was mono and perfectly calibrated between left and right, your phase meter will never move.
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You are right, of course. I need to think before I post.
 
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