Perhaps now the... ADAT

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Vurt

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I’ve been reading hundreds of posts and articles, flip-flopping between PC and other routes from my current cassette based system. As of three days ago I’ve been delving deeper into ADAT, primarily due to cost, fidelity, and ease of use. I’m considering recording on the Alesis LXorXT-20 through a mixer, transferring to my PC for editing with Wavelab 3.0, and then burn to CDR. With that said, here are some questions I have…

MIXER: digital vs. analog? So far I’ve been looking at some Mackie analogs, but don’t know anything about digital mixers (or analog for that matter).

Is the ADAT Optical Dig Interface adequate for transfer to PC, or is something else required? Also, if I’m not tracking on my PC - only editing - does the soundcard matter?

ALL comments/suggestions appreciated!

Adam
 
I'd also like to hear from someone who has used a Behringer mixer. I've read a lot of mixed reviews about many of their products from people on these boards, but their mixers seem to get some praise. I'd like to know more about them in comparison to Mackie, Alesis, etc...

thanks again,

-Adam
 
Hey
I am not to fond with the mackie mixers. More so eith the 8-bus systems. There are some flaws with it. As for the behringer, for their price they are really pretty nice, and if you were choosing between the 2 I'd choose behringer. Alesis are pretty smooth as well, but on the studio models their controls are really, really small and if you have larger bass player hands, it get annoying.
 
Thanks for the input Beave...
I don't play bass, but man I've got some meat hooks that stumble around like a blind old drunk on my TASCAM 424 board. Well, they stumble more on my fret board a lot too, but that's another story.

You're not the only one with some reservation toward the Mackies. I keep reading about "dry sounds", "thin sounds", all kinds of sounds - just not too many good ones.

Adam
 
Wallycleaver said:
Hey
I am not to fond with the mackie mixers. More so eith the 8-bus systems. There are some flaws with it. As for the behringer, for their price they are really pretty nice, and if you were choosing between the 2 I'd choose behringer. Alesis are pretty smooth as well, but on the studio models their controls are really, really small and if you have larger bass player hands, it get annoying.
Click to expand...
Huh??? You'd choose the Behringer OVER the Mackie 8-buss???? Well, to each his own I guess... I wouldn't, but that's just me.... ;)

Bruce Valeriani
Blue Bear Sound
 
Bruce
The mackie 8 bus mic pre's are the wrong impedence so they sound like poo. Mackie is a big part of the outboard mic pre trend. Also their eq is really unreliable. The quality control on the chips in the board aren't the greatest. I'm not saying that behringer will compete with a $250,000 mixer but dollar for dollar the behringer is better IMHO.
It's like nike you're buying a name brand and a status with the mackie.
 
I've heard the Behringer 8-buss (MX9000 something??) and been in a position to do A-B comparisons to the Mackie 24*8... The Behringer EQ section is horrible, I found Mackie's much smoother with more transparent effect on overall tone. As far as mic pres, the Mackie's sounded fuller and somehow more distinctive than the Behringer, which I found muddy and imprecise. In the end, I chose Mackie myself... (but I still use PreSonus outboard pres in many cases anyways!) My clients sure don't seem to be complaining!!! ;)

Bruce
 
As much as I'd like to be able to afford an 8 buss mixer, one in the $500-1000 range is more realistic. bveleria, so you say that the eq on ALL the behringers are junk, or just the one you mentioned? Right now I'm looking at the MX2442A Eurodesk or one of the Euroracks, and the Mackie 1402/1604. Any comments on any of those?

Doesn't anyone other than Ed have any experience with ADAT? I hope so because if he really is in some SoCal bathroom with 10lb test line wrapped around his scrotum, I'm not going to be able to make a decision on what setup to get for a long, long time.

Adam
 
Vurt,

I use ADAT XT20s and they are great... only downside is needing to create safety backups (in case the original tapes fail), but hey tape is cheap!

Bruce
 
Vurt,

Granted what i'm about to say is second hand information, I thought you might like to hear it anyway and then decide for yourself.
I was at another message board (about.com) and heard someone mention that Behringer was actually in the process of being sued by Mackie for basically copying their equiptment (fraud?). And on top of that they did a lousy job of doin it. Maybe just a bunch of crap, but can anyone here put validity to these accusations?

Brett
 
It's true and the law suite has already happened and Mackie won. The Behringers are Mackie wanna be's made in China.
 
Mackie vs. Behringer.

Ok, it doesnt take a genius to figure this out. but the mackie board 1604VLZ will beat the behringer boards senseless. Just touch a behringer board and you'll think you are about to break it. it feels like you could rip off a knob or fader quicker then you can crash windows. also, keep your eye on the lookout for uses spirit boards, and used A&H, you can get yourself a real deal with a used one of those for $1000. especially the spirit Studio seems to only grad $1000 used :eek: and it will destory a 16*8 or 24*8.
 
Thanks everyone for your input - you know how much it helps. I don't mind having to backup, bvaleria. You know, I've been looking at the XT and LX, and just don't understand the $700 difference between the two. Unless someone convinces me otherwise, I'm probably going to go with the LX. Since you do use ADAT, maybe you can help me out with these issues I posted, but they got lost in the mixer shuffle. Right now these things are what really have me scratching...

Is the ADAT Optical Dig Interface adequate for transfer to PC, or is something else required? Also, if I’m not tracking on my PC - only editing - does the soundcard matter?

thanks so much,
-Adam
 
LX only hs -10 input output, and has a less stable transport. its like paying insurance and getting more horsepower to buy the XT. It has +4 inputs and outputs, and has a much more solid transport. Most mixers of today are +4 and would benefit from not having that mismatch. Also go to MARS or something and hold an XT and an LX in your hand, to me it feels like the LX bends literally, and as if the XT has reinforcement or something.
 
The A/D converters are better on the XT20 - sampling rates are higher and the transports are more solid. I'd say worth the difference in price, but you have to go with what you can afford!

Bruce
 
Behringer mixers suck BIG TIME!.My 1st board was the MX2624;
EQ was weak,pre's that provided weak-ass boost,faders measured no where at 60mm and most of all no on/off switch.
The piece of crap (which i bought BRAND NEW) was totally lousy. As far as the 9000 is concerned,my wife and I attended a concert featuring jazz guitarist Eric Gale and his soundman used a 9000.Mr Gale was constantly signaling the sound man to reduce the harshness of his mic'd acoustic,re-set trim/gain,eq-boost etc. That damn board makes even the best soundman a "tweak-freak".Yeah, they're a bargain and can be had at 50-70% below retail,but they have nuthin'on Mackie,who's pre's are far superior. Though I own A Alesis-32 and a 24, my used Mackie 1202 I bought a
year ago is way far superior to any Behringer.
But alas,the choice is yours!
 
Well it looks like Behringer mixers don't get any more respect than any of their other equipment. I haven't heard anything about the Spirit boards, Kristian, but I've come across some reasonably priced used ones since reading your suggestion yesterday. I don't think I need that particular one, but some of the other ones seem to have all the features I need. So I'm going to keep an eye out for those. Otherwise, it looks like Mackie 1402 or 1642.

thanks for all the help guys,

-Adam
 
Behringer

It's true, there's no way a Behringer mixer can ever compare with Mackies, and certainly not with Soundcraft or Alesis.

But, on the other hand, some of us just don't have the money to get a proper mixer, and if you want to mix 8/16 tracks together with 8 mic pres, then you can get a behringer for substantially less than a 2nd hand model from another manufacturer (at least in the UK).

That's what it comes down to.

If you can afford an ADAT new then you can probably afford to buy a mixer with a bit more quality!

Good luck with whatever you decide,

Matt
 
Did somebody say Bob Mackie?

Bob Mackie’s reputation as a studio engineer preceded him long before he came out with the Mackie boards. He was known as quite the expert in music town when it came to the infamous Neve consoles. He made a fairly good living just taking junked bits and pieces of old Neves and making the best mic pres in existence from them. Very few people could afford to go out and buy an entire Neve board so the next best thing was just to have one or two pres from an old one. I remember Mix doing interviews with him way back when, and this guy talked in techno lingo that left you scratching your head (and me with a degree in computer repair.) I still remember the issue of Mix that announced Bob Mackie was coming out with his own line of mixers and mentioned that he was hoping to sell them at incredibly low prices. What was astounding was his claim to be able to make a board with solid-state components that had a sound quality close to that of a much pricier tube board. I sure thought he got it about as close as was possible at the time. He’s a genius all right. To be honest though, I’m not sure he’s even still with the company anymore…dun no. He might have sold out years ago for all I know. He sure broke some huge price/for quality barriers in his day though.

One word of caution about Alesis boards and products in general. The main circuit boards are made in such a way that if you blow even one potentiometer you have to replace the entire board. It’s all integrated together and also, they have a policy (at least, last I heard) that says you have to send in most products to one of a few main repair facilities they have and the minimum charge for any work done is outrageous. Now don’t get me wrong here—they do make a good board for the money but it pays to get rid of an Alesis product the day it outlives its warranty.

Just my 2 cents on a rainy day with nothing better to do….
 
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