pedalboard snake DIY

tourettes5139

tourettes5139

New member
Hey all,

I've been lookin' at these pedalboard snakes at www.pedalsnake.com and I was thinking I'd try my hand at putting one together myself, for the fun of it. I want to have a power line (for a oneSpot adapter for the pedals), lines for the fx loop, a dual footswitch (channel switching and reverb for a Carvin Legacy), and the output from the pedals going into the front end of the amp.

I need to know what cables I should use to actually make the snake. At the above link, it looks like they're using midi connectors, although the actual wiring may be something different.

A few questions.

1. Would I be able to use a DB25, CAT5 or something like that (for the fx loop, footswitch, and amp input)?
2. What would I use for the power line?
3. Assuming I use DB25 or something, I could use a common ground for the audio signals, right? Or would I want to isolate them? I'm assuming I would have to isolate the ground for the footswitch signals for it to work correctly. I don't want ground loops or anything like that (obviously).

I'm assuming it would be best to not have the power and the audio running on the same cable/connector, so I would probably run two cables, one for the audio, the other for power, and then heat shrink around them, or something similar to keep everything neat.

If I use DB25, I could just have a breakout box/cable on the board, and one at the amp, and then just hook up the cable inbetween for a nice, easy setup. If I'm thinking about this whole thing correctly. :D

Any ideas, input, advice, $0.02, etc.?

Thanks a ton!!
JM

P.S. another link, the patent for his design. PedalSnake Patent
 
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The only thing I have to add to this is that you'll want to run DC through the snake, not AC!

As for how, I haven't the faintest, but I'd like to know as I'd like to do this myself. Perhaps using regular snake cable, with multiple ends?
 
steve.h said:
The only thing I have to add to this is that you'll want to run DC through the snake, not AC!

As for how, I haven't the faintest, but I'd like to know as I'd like to do this myself. Perhaps using regular snake cable, with multiple ends?
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Actually, it's much better not to run either through the snake, and in fact it is best to have power and audio running separate paths, and coming into the pedal board from opposite sides. AC, of course, can bleed into your audio path, but your audio can bleed into the DC lines and cause noise that way. Keep power separate from audio whenever possible. (Ideally, they should run in parallel lines at least six feet apart, and when they cross they should do so at right angles - as if anyone ever actually can do that on a stage! But at least, do not run them through the same snake.)

You can get expandable braided polyester sleeving from most electronics supply places (Mouser, Digi-Key, etc.). Get the cables you need (any good quality cable - when I did mine I just used Belden cable and switchcraft ends), figure out how thick they are, and get sleeving to fit. I consider DB15 or DB25 conectors to be a very bad idea, as they are not at all stage/road worthy. If you really want to do a big multi-connector, use something like THESE with a good multi conductor cable, like some of THESE. (There are cheaper places to get the cable, which will sell smaller volumes.) Frankly, though, I don't like the multi-connector route, because it is much less versatile. When you change your system you have to change your snake, and they are expensive! Also, having multiple connectors running through the same shielding can cause extra capacitance, which may bleed off some of your high end. For guitar level signals, it is much better to have each run using a separate shield/ground. Snakes work great for mike level signals, because they are a much lower impedance. Not so great for guitars.

The nice thing about the expandable braided sleeving is that you can easily (well, relatively) change the number of cables in it, or the type of cables, etc. I'd advise against trying to make a snake with shrink tubing as it is too stiff once it is shrunk, and you can't change anything in it. Also, the right sized heat shrink for your cables will be a nightmare to feed your cables through. I've tried heat shrink and expandable sleeving, and the expandable sleeving is by FAR the way to go.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
Well, now, the advise given here (and I am not ragging on it, mind you) seems to suggest that a pedal board snake is not really such a good idea:

You don't really want to make a single snake, carrying all cables. That means at least two runs from point A to B, likely more: Best case scenario is you have one cable run for audio, another for power. If you like your pedalboard plugged into the effects loop of your amp, why not just use a double audio cable, with TS plugs on each end? Instant "2-cable" snake.

I have tried making pedal board snakes before, and altho I didn't notice any problems from running the power cords right alongside the audio cables (again, not trying to give anyone grief, here, just reporting...) I came to the conclusion that it just was not worth the trouble. Took me a while to get said snake like I wanted it, and then, less than a week later, I needed to take it apart because I needed a different configuration.
2.
 
Not $0.02 but two pee!

Yes CAT 5 PATCH cable will be fine, find a network wiring firm they will probably throw 20mtrs at you if you hustle them!

I only gave the site a quick look but "how hard can it be!" lot of B.S. there methinks.

Gordon TX, given that a lot of pedal psu's are crap and many pedals use discrete devices with crap power supply rejection there MIGHT be a problem but IMHO good designs should not bleed tother or which way. Viz, 48V phantom power? Ok I know it is a balanced system but it also works because the dc is clean!

My modest bungalow is entwined in CAT 5 shielded and I run 24vdc ON 7/8 and mics room to room, no worries.

Go for it my son!

Dave.
 
stevieb said:
I have tried making pedal board snakes before, and altho I didn't notice any problems from running the power cords right alongside the audio cables (again, not trying to give anyone grief, here, just reporting...)
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It doesn't always cause a problem, just sometimes. It's kind of like neon lights or light dimmers - sometimes they cause a problem, sometimes not. It's pretty location specific.

A snake isn't a bad idea, you just want to follow some good design practices. Don't run power and signal together, it's best to use shielded lines, and bundle it together in a way which can be changed easily. Hell, you can even just use electrical tape to bundle it. Pull the cables straight, and put a wrap of tape every 8-12 inches. I've done that more than a few times for drum kit mic snakes, and it works just fine. It's not as pretty as the expandable sleeving, but it will work


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
Light! I am SURPISED at you! Electrical tape? YUCK! Sure, it works, but the sticky residue it leaves- even if you don't take it off- is just so irritating. I would think you would hate that stuff for uses like wraping home-made snakes- it has it place, but surely not there.

But whatever- not gonna keep beating this drum...and I won't call you Shurley again.
 
Well yes yeuk!

But being a noob here I did not want to say too much.

You can buy "self amalgamating" tape that is not sticky at all but ultimately fuses together.

Dave.
 
FWIW, there are 100 foot PA snakes that run speaker signal back to the stage bundled with mic cables from the stage, and there is no crosstalk between the speaker lines and the mic lines, and speaker lines carry 100Vpp AC or more. I used one at a sound gig a couple of months ago and it worked just fine. I wouldn't worry about running a 9V DC line bundled with instrument/line signals as long as all the signal lines are shielded. In any snake you are going to want to have all your signal lines independently shielded, anyway.
 
ggunn said:
FWIW, there are 100 foot PA snakes that run speaker signal back to the stage bundled with mic cables from the stage, and there is no crosstalk between the speaker lines and the mic lines, and speaker lines carry 100Vpp AC or more.
Click to expand...

The mic cables are balanced, and will eliminate any noise picked up along the cable run, by design. well, the cable won't, but balanced-input-equipped gear will. No such guarantee with instrument cable.
 
"The mic cables are balanced, and will eliminate any noise picked up along the cable run, by design. well, the cable won't, but balanced-input-equipped gear will. No such guarantee with instrument cable."

True, but as I mentioned before +48 still needs to be very clean, you cannot know how good the CMMR of any particular system is going to be.

Most important is having very low source impedances <100R if possible and THAT is where a lot of pedal 'tronics will fall down.

Dave.
 
ermghoti said:
The mic cables are balanced, and will eliminate any noise picked up along the cable run, by design. well, the cable won't, but balanced-input-equipped gear will. No such guarantee with instrument cable.
Click to expand...

That's true, but I still wouldn't worry about unbalanced lines capacitively coupling to DC lines through shielding and three or four layers of insulation, especially over the short run of a pedal board snake. I haven't done the math, but I'm willing to bet that the lumped parasitic capacitance between the signal conductor in the hi-Z cable and the power conductor would be orders of magnitude smaller than the competing power to ground filter caps in a regulated power supply, and that's disregarding the shield (or two) that would be between them. If the DC power supply is poorly regulated and has a lot of 60 Hz line noise on it, then there might be a problem with that noise being picked up by a bundled hi-Z instrument level signal.

BTW, I have used single mic lines in a snake to run high impedance stereo line signals back and forth to the stage (one channel on each conductor with no shielding between them) with no crosstalk issues.

Anyway, do what you want, but I personally wouldn't worry about it.
 
stevieb said:
Well, now, the advise given here (and I am not ragging on it, mind you) seems to suggest that a pedal board snake is not really such a good idea:


2.
Click to expand...
that is pretty much my take

i really don't see any practical use for a pedal board snake:confused:
 
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