sonusman
Banned
S8-N said:
Yup, once you have ALL the mod's that he does on his amp and guitars done!
Ed
Yup, once you have ALL the mod's that he does on his amp and guitars done!
Ed
E
Elco
New member
>And some people have shown examples of personal taste that many more agree with!
It is known as "universal appeal". Has worked throughout the history of music quite well thanks!
Yikes...sounds like car salesman talk. Far away from something innovative , creative musicians should care about. I'd hate to be in the studio with you.." Here guys!...just plug into this here Marshall, and you'll get the BEST tone, that everyone wants! (read- a tone that has 'universal appeal and "I" like)...forget about that unique sound your getting with that Peavey!, this sounds better." You should be a Producer ! hehe...
Anyhows, imo, any engineer worth his salt could MAKE certain Crates or Peavey's sound really, really good anyway. Notice I did say certain, haha...the vast majority of crates and peavey's are junk, but those that aren't , you obviously haven't tried.
It is known as "universal appeal". Has worked throughout the history of music quite well thanks!
Yikes...sounds like car salesman talk. Far away from something innovative , creative musicians should care about. I'd hate to be in the studio with you.." Here guys!...just plug into this here Marshall, and you'll get the BEST tone, that everyone wants! (read- a tone that has 'universal appeal and "I" like)...forget about that unique sound your getting with that Peavey!, this sounds better." You should be a Producer ! hehe...
Anyhows, imo, any engineer worth his salt could MAKE certain Crates or Peavey's sound really, really good anyway. Notice I did say certain, haha...the vast majority of crates and peavey's are junk, but those that aren't , you obviously haven't tried.
getuhgrip
Bring Back Transfat!
Demi Moore still gets my "universal Appeal" vote! 
BBB
Member
Elco said:
Heh.
"And while We're at it... Here guys, while I'm picking a proven amps for you, why don't we scrap your songs and record some proven songs written by proven songwriters... And while we're at it, why don't we get some proven musicians to play the songs for you... Heck... why bother recording a new CD? We've got all these old CD's that are proven... Heaven forbid we record something new and creative... We'll just stick to the old and proven."
Heh.
BBB
Member
However...
The creativity aspect aside, Bruce earlier hinted at a good point. Many guitarists don't know a great tone if it came up and bit them in the ass.
One example is when they scoop out the mids to get a heavy tone. If done improperly, this tone can result in a guitar loosing its balls on a small system because much of the bass disappears, thus castrating the guitarist's tone.
Accordingly, when an engineer encounters a guitarist that doesn't understand his tone in relation to the mix, the engineer must fall back onto what the engineer knows will work.
The creativity aspect aside, Bruce earlier hinted at a good point. Many guitarists don't know a great tone if it came up and bit them in the ass.
One example is when they scoop out the mids to get a heavy tone. If done improperly, this tone can result in a guitar loosing its balls on a small system because much of the bass disappears, thus castrating the guitarist's tone.
Accordingly, when an engineer encounters a guitarist that doesn't understand his tone in relation to the mix, the engineer must fall back onto what the engineer knows will work.
sonusman
Banned
Aren't you all just a bunch of witty smart guys! 
I agree that certain Peavey's and Crate's can sound alright....I have tracks recorded with both that sound very good indeed.
I love how on this board, people are looking for what is more popularly used that produces great results, and ask as much, then everyone gets huffy over being told that it is the same stuff that has been used for years and years.
What is normally used is asked for, and people suggest "the exceptions". Interesting.....
I can assure you all that between Fender and Marshall, there is at least one model of their amps that sound like, and better, than any Peavey and/or Crate knockoff.
But, I have said my peace, and don't need to settle into silly debate. I can afford to make general recommendations concerning equipment mainly because I get to deal with ALL of it in my work. EXPERIENCE guides me, not a bias towards the only thing I own.
I can comfortable say this. In all of the productions that I have worked on in live and studio sound, Peavey and Crate are SELDOMLY ever used by those that care about how they actually sound.
To try to play on the "creativity" bullshit with me had to be the lamest arguement I have ever heard. I have worked with Grammy award winning artists in the Jazz/Blues catagories in live sound who have sought out and taken my advice on tones appropriate for the day. Having been a player/songwriter in the past that was nearly signed twice by major labels, I like to think that I take a "musical" approach to engineering that serves the needs I have from the sound to work with, as well as enhancing what the artist is doing. My experience is that the better the artist, the more they see the value in working with engineers to help get a sound that is appropriate for what they are doing. These are the guys that almost without exception have the same damn gear you have seen used over and over again. Some equipment shows it's value over the years. It is the guys that are going nowhere that usually scoff at the suggestions and argue a lot.
Peace
Ed
I agree that certain Peavey's and Crate's can sound alright....I have tracks recorded with both that sound very good indeed.
I love how on this board, people are looking for what is more popularly used that produces great results, and ask as much, then everyone gets huffy over being told that it is the same stuff that has been used for years and years.
What is normally used is asked for, and people suggest "the exceptions". Interesting.....
I can assure you all that between Fender and Marshall, there is at least one model of their amps that sound like, and better, than any Peavey and/or Crate knockoff.
But, I have said my peace, and don't need to settle into silly debate. I can afford to make general recommendations concerning equipment mainly because I get to deal with ALL of it in my work. EXPERIENCE guides me, not a bias towards the only thing I own.
I can comfortable say this. In all of the productions that I have worked on in live and studio sound, Peavey and Crate are SELDOMLY ever used by those that care about how they actually sound.
To try to play on the "creativity" bullshit with me had to be the lamest arguement I have ever heard. I have worked with Grammy award winning artists in the Jazz/Blues catagories in live sound who have sought out and taken my advice on tones appropriate for the day. Having been a player/songwriter in the past that was nearly signed twice by major labels, I like to think that I take a "musical" approach to engineering that serves the needs I have from the sound to work with, as well as enhancing what the artist is doing. My experience is that the better the artist, the more they see the value in working with engineers to help get a sound that is appropriate for what they are doing. These are the guys that almost without exception have the same damn gear you have seen used over and over again. Some equipment shows it's value over the years. It is the guys that are going nowhere that usually scoff at the suggestions and argue a lot.
Peace
Ed
Slackmaster2K
Gone
Using a Peavey makes you creative? Horf! You just hit the end of the road.
Do you know why the "it's not the gear it's your playing" argument is so popular? Because it's never fucking been demonstrated! Yeah your guitar superhero is still going to play amazing shit on crappy gear, but that doesn't mean it's going to sound *good*. Hell, you're implying that guitar superboy just walks into the studio and says, "just plug me into anything, it doesn't matter."
So the expensive high quality gear is only for people can't play well enough. Man, a classic turnaround. I wish I was up to speed on psychological terminology.
I don't think anyone here ever said that "only fender and marshall" amplifers sound good. But without a doubt they are the reference for most musicians. Matchless, Vox, Ampeg...there are a shitload of great amplifer brands out there. Peavey and Crate make mass-produced low quality high school rock band / sound reenforcement quality amplifiers. Sure, I bet they both make "a good model" but I'm sure as hell not going to support them so that they can flood the market with more junk gear and swindle more kids out of money that would have been better spent elsewhere.
People need to spend less time worrying about their sound, and more time thinking about what they sound like. When you come to understand the difference, you'll come to understand that there's a lot more to appreciate about music than the songs alone.
P.S. I just learned that Peavey and Crate are responsible for the current power shortages on the west coast. It seems that they draw too much power to produce their relatively weak output, so young blink-182 loving wanna-be musicians in California are being asked to turn down....for the sake of the power grid, and our ears.
Slackmaster 2000
Do you know why the "it's not the gear it's your playing" argument is so popular? Because it's never fucking been demonstrated! Yeah your guitar superhero is still going to play amazing shit on crappy gear, but that doesn't mean it's going to sound *good*. Hell, you're implying that guitar superboy just walks into the studio and says, "just plug me into anything, it doesn't matter."
So the expensive high quality gear is only for people can't play well enough. Man, a classic turnaround. I wish I was up to speed on psychological terminology.
I don't think anyone here ever said that "only fender and marshall" amplifers sound good. But without a doubt they are the reference for most musicians. Matchless, Vox, Ampeg...there are a shitload of great amplifer brands out there. Peavey and Crate make mass-produced low quality high school rock band / sound reenforcement quality amplifiers. Sure, I bet they both make "a good model" but I'm sure as hell not going to support them so that they can flood the market with more junk gear and swindle more kids out of money that would have been better spent elsewhere.
People need to spend less time worrying about their sound, and more time thinking about what they sound like. When you come to understand the difference, you'll come to understand that there's a lot more to appreciate about music than the songs alone.
P.S. I just learned that Peavey and Crate are responsible for the current power shortages on the west coast. It seems that they draw too much power to produce their relatively weak output, so young blink-182 loving wanna-be musicians in California are being asked to turn down....for the sake of the power grid, and our ears.
Slackmaster 2000
E
Elco
New member
>I agree that certain Peavey's and Crate's can sound alright....I have tracks recorded
with both that sound very good indeed.
> Sure, I bet they both make "a good model"
That wasn't so hard now, was it? lol
with both that sound very good indeed.
> Sure, I bet they both make "a good model"
That wasn't so hard now, was it? lol
8
8trackmind
New member
CRATE SUCKS!
I bought a crate amp and have regretted it ever since. nothing but a piece of shit. Twice it's been in the shop for same thing, it keeps blowing fuses.Something keeps frying.All this while under warranty, so it has been fixed,but none the less more than annoying.Now it's been sitting in my garage broken down again,for about 2 months.And the warranty is up,still need to call them up and tell them this is bullshit!!!
ALSO CRATE AND AMPEG ARE MADE BY THE SAME PEOPLE!I NEVER PLAYED AN AMPEG BUT I'D PROBABLY STAY AWAY FROM ONE.
I bought a crate amp and have regretted it ever since. nothing but a piece of shit. Twice it's been in the shop for same thing, it keeps blowing fuses.Something keeps frying.All this while under warranty, so it has been fixed,but none the less more than annoying.Now it's been sitting in my garage broken down again,for about 2 months.And the warranty is up,still need to call them up and tell them this is bullshit!!!
ALSO CRATE AND AMPEG ARE MADE BY THE SAME PEOPLE!I NEVER PLAYED AN AMPEG BUT I'D PROBABLY STAY AWAY FROM ONE.
P
psmith66
New member
I'm going to concede this much:
Since I haven't played every amp in the world, I am not going to DEFINITIVELY conclude that one brand is "better" than another brand. My general leanings toward Marshalls and Fenders has its basis in my own incomplete experience. As for knowing a good guitar tone, this is a relative issue. You may think you are getting the best guitar tone possible (for you), but if you haven't tried everything out there you can never be certain. And while I greatly prefer the sound of my Marshall, I would not categorize the sound of my tweaked POD (played through a Peavey in "neutral") as crappy or shitty.
Finally, I get the feeling that many guitar players associate the term "good tone" with "balls", "distortion", "fatness", etc. Go listen to, say, some Jeff Beck stuff like "Cause we've Ended as Lovers" or even "People Get Ready". Listen to some Roy Buchanon. Listen to Dickey Betts. Cranking the Marshall to get a good tone doesn't necessarily mean distortion. I love it when you can get a clean response from a light touch, but have it break into a smooth scream based solely on attack. Of course, if you want a "Poison" tone (for whatever reason), then this sound wouldn't work for you. But that's ok........
Since I haven't played every amp in the world, I am not going to DEFINITIVELY conclude that one brand is "better" than another brand. My general leanings toward Marshalls and Fenders has its basis in my own incomplete experience. As for knowing a good guitar tone, this is a relative issue. You may think you are getting the best guitar tone possible (for you), but if you haven't tried everything out there you can never be certain. And while I greatly prefer the sound of my Marshall, I would not categorize the sound of my tweaked POD (played through a Peavey in "neutral") as crappy or shitty.
Finally, I get the feeling that many guitar players associate the term "good tone" with "balls", "distortion", "fatness", etc. Go listen to, say, some Jeff Beck stuff like "Cause we've Ended as Lovers" or even "People Get Ready". Listen to some Roy Buchanon. Listen to Dickey Betts. Cranking the Marshall to get a good tone doesn't necessarily mean distortion. I love it when you can get a clean response from a light touch, but have it break into a smooth scream based solely on attack. Of course, if you want a "Poison" tone (for whatever reason), then this sound wouldn't work for you. But that's ok........
G
grecoUSA
New member
how bout these #'s
Hey Getuhgrip,
I play on a Peavey 212 which has a four way pedal to use two on board ultra and lead effects, a bypass to a clean channel, and a lead switch that you can bypass all three inboard effects by bussing your external effects pedal. I love this $600 amp because of its easy to use bypass switches. If you get into recording in a home or professional studio or want to record a live jam session this amp offers an send out put that will not weaken your listening sound. I have my 212 looped to my 8 channel crate mixing board. THis is a nice feature when you jam for some friends and you have those out of body solo bursts that seem to come once in a lifetime. All you have to do is hit your record button on whatever recording device you have set up to the mixer. This feature also alleviates an external mic which can pick up distorted sound of other insrument which can give your demo recording a bad sound.
I have jammed on a crate which had on 12" speaker. Although it was loud I feel that the brand speakers Crate uses are shit! I would definatly do some more research befor you purchase anything over the internet. Also, I have heard that some of those Ebay leads can take your money and run. I suggest purchasing directly from a distributer or straight from the company you decide to purchase through.
I hope this gives you insite of one good product out there.
Later
Hey Getuhgrip,
I play on a Peavey 212 which has a four way pedal to use two on board ultra and lead effects, a bypass to a clean channel, and a lead switch that you can bypass all three inboard effects by bussing your external effects pedal. I love this $600 amp because of its easy to use bypass switches. If you get into recording in a home or professional studio or want to record a live jam session this amp offers an send out put that will not weaken your listening sound. I have my 212 looped to my 8 channel crate mixing board. THis is a nice feature when you jam for some friends and you have those out of body solo bursts that seem to come once in a lifetime. All you have to do is hit your record button on whatever recording device you have set up to the mixer. This feature also alleviates an external mic which can pick up distorted sound of other insrument which can give your demo recording a bad sound.
I have jammed on a crate which had on 12" speaker. Although it was loud I feel that the brand speakers Crate uses are shit! I would definatly do some more research befor you purchase anything over the internet. Also, I have heard that some of those Ebay leads can take your money and run. I suggest purchasing directly from a distributer or straight from the company you decide to purchase through.
I hope this gives you insite of one good product out there.
Later
G
gnarled
New member
I have yet to hear a direct send or "recording compensated" output on a guitar amp thats worth half a sh*t. For clean sounds they are almost acceptable if your using a 4-track but they absolutely ruin distortion. But then again, the onboard effects on that peavey 112 probably ruin the distortion anyhow, so more power to yah.
S8-N
..|.. Part-time Antichrist ..|..
This will be an experiment in crappy tone:
I just posted an MP3 of my latest tune in the MP3 mixing clinic... The guitar is a Peavy preamp, through a Crate poweramp... in between is an Alesis EQ... These are easily the 3 cheesiest and cheapest names in music gear... Id like for a few of you tone guys to judge whether or not my tone is crappy... because it sounds fine to me... Maybe I have hearing loss or maybe I am just not too picky.
In all fairness I must add that I play through a Marshall cab loaded with the good celestions... The guitar was mic'ed with a SM57 and no FX are in the mix, save for a bit of EQ...
The post is in the MP3 mixing clinic and it is called "My first MP3 in a long time..." or something like that.
Educate me on tone.
I just posted an MP3 of my latest tune in the MP3 mixing clinic... The guitar is a Peavy preamp, through a Crate poweramp... in between is an Alesis EQ... These are easily the 3 cheesiest and cheapest names in music gear... Id like for a few of you tone guys to judge whether or not my tone is crappy... because it sounds fine to me... Maybe I have hearing loss or maybe I am just not too picky.
In all fairness I must add that I play through a Marshall cab loaded with the good celestions... The guitar was mic'ed with a SM57 and no FX are in the mix, save for a bit of EQ...
The post is in the MP3 mixing clinic and it is called "My first MP3 in a long time..." or something like that.
Educate me on tone.