PC recording

[moi]

Ok... I've read a lot of what is here already and am still lost. My husband has been trying to get a decent sound when recording electric guitar to PC and just can not do it. Here is what he has done and the results....

He goes through the effect pedals and amp then to the soundcard (crappy one I'll admit) - This produces a "tinney" sound. Cold? And then there is the hiss. This improves, but not perfectly, with less distortion but then he does not have the sound he wants. We use Adobe Audition (Cool Edit Pro) and reducing the hiss in there just makes it sound slightly muffled. Additionally, the guitar lacks clarity. When you add the other tracks, it sounds muddy. Basically, the recordings do not sound anything like what you hear out of the amp.

We got an m-audio fast-track. This reduced the hiss and also added the muffle. It acheived the same undesired result as the software. Other then that, the guitar was still cold sounding and the recordings sounded the same hence we have chalked this piece of equipment up as a waste of $$$.

He does not want to amp and effect virtually via software. Tweaking this way is fine but not just recording cold guitar and adding all effects via Adobe Audition.

A friend suggested that a tube preamp would solve his tin type problem and warm it up but we are still left with the hiss problem then possibly and do not even know if this will work.

Anybody have any ideas how to get a decent recording via the amp without spending a fortune on additional equipment? Some additional add-ons like the preamp are fine but nothing extravagant.

 

[ErichS]

Are you going direct out of the amp to the sound card or using a microphone?
Direct out is usually going to sound crappy unless the amp has some simulation software like the Line 6 models.

 

[moi]

He originally tried going from the line out on the amp to the line in on the soundcard. That didn't work. He actually had to go from the external speaker on the amp. But yes, he is going direct from the amp. I think he tried a mic at one point without good results. My VERY uneducated theory was that there is just no way to make it work from the amp. His friend sent a file he recorded using a preamp and it was better but I still think better can be obtained. He has always recorded in a professional studio and it is hard to "know" how "good" you can get it on a computer without spending a fortune.

Oh, and no, his amp does not have simulation software.

 

[Neeps]

Are you going direct out of the amp to the sound card or using a microphone?
Direct out is usually going to sound crappy unless the amp has some simulation software like the Line 6 models.

ErichS is correct... you need to mic the guitar amp to get a good sound... (assuming it's a decent sounding guitar amp) that's the way the pro's do it...

but don't discount the amp simulators... (i.e. Line 6 Pod or something similar) you can plug them in direct and you don't need to use a mic... they will probably sound better unless you have an expensive guitar amp and they will model multiple guitar amps so you will have a wider variety of sounds to choose from...

and they are easier to carry up stairs...

good luck...

P.S. I wish I had a secretary to deal with asking all my homerecording.com questions...

 

[ErichS]

ErichS is correct... you need to mic the guitar amp to get a good sound... (assuming it's a decent sounding guitar amp) that's the way the pro's do it...

but don't discount the amp simulators... (i.e. Line 6 Pod or something similar) you can plug them in direct and you don't need to use a mic... they will probably sound better unless you have an expensive guitar amp and they will model multiple guitar amps so you will have a wider variety of sounds to choose from...

and they are easier to carry up stairs...

good luck...

P.S. I wish I had a secretary to deal with asking all my homerecording.com questions...

Exactly - There are basically two schools of thought for electric guitar recording.

1) Get a great sound from your guitar rig, stick a mic infront of it (I'm generalizing here) and record it.

2) Use a amp simulator (lots of choices and variables here, but I've had pretty good luck with a the Line 6 POD - others would vehemently disagree)

You are definately not going to get a good sound going from the external speaker connection of the amp (This may even be bad for your sound card as the speaker out and line out are probably very different voltages - I'm not sure here)

If he likes the amp sound and ya'll have a few bucks to spend, a tried and true method is a Shure SM57 mike, close up, pointed at the amp speaker, into a mixer or preamp (does not have to be too fancy - dare I say Behringer?) to line in of sound card.

All this also depends on his recording goals. If he is wanting to get started with home recording and create some demo quality recordings, you dont have to spend a fortune.

If he is trying to get something studio quality he might be better of going to a studio or be prepared to spend a lot of time (years) perfecting his recording technique.

 

[Tifstorey]

Yeah sounds about right. Does sound like you need to spend a bit of money unfortunatley for you, not a fortune mind. Before you do, just mic the amp up like Erichs says by placing the mic directly infront of it so it can pick up all the sound. If that doesnt work, and the sound is still 'tinny' try adding a bit more lower end eq which will bring the bass up a bit more. Im just trying to give you ideas really before you go out and spend some money on a new soundcard!

If none of the above increases the quality by enough, then i would suggest buying a better soundcard and microphone (depending on what you already have).

If your lost with what soundcards you want, try doing a search on this forum and youll find some answers.

Good luck!

 

[moi]

Thank you so much everyone for your advice. I was up half the night reading and (now please bare in mind that I am not a musician, I do graphics and they are a lot simpler!) After reading ErichS's post about the line 6 amps, I went on a line 6 product hunt and saw the POD. That "seemed" perhaps a good alternative to a "real" amp but the info still confused me so thanks guys for confirming that for me!

It did finally click I think though (not bad for someone who knows NOTHING here) when after reading ErichS's post, I asked my husband, "When you were in the studio, did they mic the amp?" He's like, "yea". Ok, logically, (at least to ME) if there was a way to record the actual amp straight (as he was trying to do) through some device, wouldn't the studio do it? Not to mention, as I pointed out to him, that placement of the amp, room acoustics, etc are always something he is fiddling with to get the right sound. Going straight from the amp, you'd loose all of that (because cords don't have room acoustics) and it seems to make sense you'd never be able to reproduce that sound accurately like that. (in hindsight, DUH!)

So I started looking up mic'ing the amp. My husband actually suggested the Shure57 mic for me to research. So again ErichS, thanks for confirming that!

As for the amp, I am assuming it would do for his purposes. Most of his professional recording was done with a Marshall stack before but he actually did record some pieces in the professional studio with this particular amp as well and although it'll never be his beloved Marshall, it did the job. He most likely would just record these for demo purposes and take the best of the bunch and go into a professional recording studio and redo them if he wanted a better quality. He just wants something above the "crap" quality he is currently getting!

I also seemed to draw the conclusion that mic'ing the amp into a preamp was needed so the comments on that helped clear it up for me. A friend had suggested a tube preamp. He also said something about a Red Box but that only confused me further.

Basically, you guys just confirmed what I researched and I highly appreciate it because I would have still been a lot more unsure then I am now. I have been going nuts with this stuff. And Handsome Al, if you ever get that secretary, be sure she has more knowledge about the stuff then I do! And as for lugging the amp, that is where I draw the line, I'll bring coffee, guitar picks, go buy strings, etc but I won't carry amps!

And I will definitely take your soundcard research suggestion Tifstorey.

So I guess the only questions I have left are, what the heck is the purpose of a Red Box? Sounds like an un-needed item here and I don't even "get" what the thing does. And any suggestions on a preamp? Tube or non tube? Will pretty much just any preamp do the job? I don't think he wants to mess with a mixer... that part he prefers the software end in Audition.

Again thank you so much everyone.

 

[jeap]

the red box is a cabinet simulator i think...

if you mic the amp you would not use one

you would use it if you go from the guitar amp recording out or preamp out. the red box then would simulate a guitar speaker which usually doesnt reproduce lows or highs efficiently

some people say they have luck recording from recording outs or preamp or line outs on guitar amps but amps differ and with some they are noisy and dont sound good

i use a tascam us-122 usb interface for recording. if i do guitars i can just plug a mic or mic preamp or amp modeler into that. it converts the sound to digital audio and sends it through the usb port. at $199 its a convenient and inexpensive alternative to sound cards

it has mic preamps but i use a rane ms 1b which is a nice cheap preamp - $150

tube preamps are very expensive... the cheaper ones are not really using the tube for the main gain stages

you dont really NEED that to get a good sound

anyway good luck!

 

[Neeps]

Okay here's a cheap solution... I'm sure there are plenty variations on this theme...

Buy a SM57 mic (Zzounds $89.95 - Perhaps cheaper elsewhere I dunno)
Buy a M-Audio Audiobuddy preamp (Zzounds $71.95)

or if you want to go even cheaper check ebay...

point SM57 at the guitar amp

plug the SM57 into the preamp

plug the preamp output into the Line In of your soundcard...

hit record...

P.S.

What! You make coffee and run errands to the string shop as well! Thats it I'm moving back home to live with my mum again!

 

[Neeps]

I do graphics and they are a lot simpler

Graphics cool... what can I do to make my website better? It's so bloody boring!

 

[jeap]

the problem with a crappy soundcard is crappy analog to digital converters

it would be a shame to assemble all the other stuff and still have the same problem

 

[aaroncomp]

Get a PODxt (plus the model packs for it if you want modern rock/metal tones). The tones are amazing, especially with tweaking and is much more convenient/easier. Plus, if you don't want to bother with using 1/4" cables, you can just USB it straight into your computer.

 

[jeap]

Get a PODxt (plus the model packs for it if you want modern rock/metal tones). The tones are amazing, especially with tweaking and is much more convenient/easier. Plus, if you don't want to bother with using 1/4" cables, you can just USB it straight into your computer.

yep a LOT of good stuff has been done with pods including the hot guitar playing on the "becker" tv show

 

[moi]

Graphics cool... what can I do to make my website better? It's so bloody boring!

You need MORE on the page Too much whitespace.

A logo perhaps.. photos of the band members would spice it up a lot, bios, etc.