PC or not PC, that is the question...

[HeyHeyMyMy]

Hello,

I've been reading through post after post on here about ideal PC setups for recording etc. etc. Originally I figured PC was the way to go, but now I'm not so sure. Could someone help me out as to why someone such as myself who would mainly be recording folk-rock type music would need to go so far as to buy all this expensive PC stuff? I am wondering if it's really a necessity. Could I get a cheaper Digital Workstation (ie. Korg 1600mkII or Tascam 2488) and just use that? Or, in buying these type of units, am I just cheating myself out of the better deal which would be the PC setup for a few hundred dollars more?

I will most likely only be laying down one track at a time and just doing a few overdubs of backing vox, and perhaps a couple other instruments.

Considering I will only really be recording upward of 8 to 12 tracks total, I may not even need to get something as expensive as the digital workstations mentioned above. I like the idea of the built in CDRW though. Any thoughts anyone? Thanks for your time!

 

[HeyHeyMyMy]

Fee free to disregard this message... I just found a thread with a very similar theme. Thanks.

 

[tedluk]

This has been the subject of more than one thread here! I come down firmly in the middle! lol Honestly, I use both and there are merits to both approaches as well as downsides.

First of all, if you will only be recording a few tracks at a time and don't need a lot of mic preamps, then you can certainly get by with a smaller unit than the ones you mentioned. The trade-offs? Possibly lower quality mic pres, smaller hard drives, fewer options for I/O, etc. Whether this makes sense will depend on two major factors. First, your budget and second, what kind of quality you are trying to achieve. If this is for demo work or fun or to sketch out songs for performance or studio recording later on, then this approach should work great. If you are hoping to turn out a CD ready for commercial release then you're probably going to be disappointed.

A PC based DAW offers a lot of flexibility since you can configure it in limitless ways based on your personal needs. The drawback to this? The potential for limitless problems! Ok, that's an exaggeration, but there's some truth to it. The disadvantage to a PC is also its strength. Choosing hardware and software and getting everything to work together can be daunting. Once you do, it's a powerful method of recording.

While some people enjoy the process of putting a DAW together and tweaking it, others like the comfort of buying one piece of gear that has everything they need and an OS optimized for the task at hand.

The biggest disadvantage for the all-on-one? Generally speaking, you can't upgrade them. They are what they are. You might get some upgrades to the OS, but the hardware won't change. This could be seen as a plus, I suppose, once you buy one there won't be the temptation to constantly purchase more equipment. OTOH, purchasing more equipment can be a LOT of fun!!

HTH!

Ted

 

[HeyHeyMyMy]

Hi Ted,
Thanks very much for your reply. I'm not really looking for professional, $2000/day studio sound, but of course, better sound is always fine by me. I only plan on recording for demos/fun and already own a Tascam 424mkIII analog tape unit, but I like the idea of being able to record digitally and write directly to a cd. My budget is not large as I am a poor university student and will be scraping the bottom of the barrel to find $1000 for this project. That's why the PC route worries me. I could get a new PC w/ a 2.5gHz processor, 512mb of ram, 40gb hd etc. for around $500 (Canadian). But then I am left buying a good sound card, and whatever the hell else I will need to get everything interfaced together. Would the Tascam work as a pre? I read that it might. I've also got an older keyboard w/ MIDI capabilities that I'm told may serve some purpose in the chain of events.

Truthfully, as you can see I am VERY new to pc recording and don't really know what I would require to get going w/ a PC unit and the added potential costs scare me as my second round of tuition is due in December and I need to be able to pay it! haha. Anyway, thanks for your help thus far and any added thoughts are more than welcome!

Paul

 

[tedluk]

Well, you can certainly pick up an 8 track all-in-one for a very reasonable price used. Look at some of the units from Roland or Zoom or you could probably find a Korg D1200. Check on E-bay. Any of these will be a good, low-cost starting point. They'll have everything you need to do basic recording. Maybe not the best quality, but- A LOT!- better than your cassette!

I don't have time right now to look at your Tascam's specs. If it has direct outputs on it or insert points, you might be able to use it as a mic pre.

Do you have any microphones?

For your needs and as a way to learn the basics of recording, I'd say a small all-in-one would be a good choice.

Ted

 

[HeyHeyMyMy]

Hey Ted,
All I've got right now is an old SM58, I would imagine it would be wise to pick up a new mic. I've got a very low budget compressor, Alto BK2.0, which I haven't even triet yet because I don't have a mic pre. I will keep an eye out on eBay for those units you mentioned. Do they have built in CD-RW drives or would I need to get a standalone unit?

thanks for all your help.

Paul

 

[manning1]

my recommendation fwiw is cad gxl mic and look round the used pawnbroker shops for used mics that work eG ; old ev dynamics, old shures etc. , a yamaha mg mixer , and computer....
amd athlon 2 7200 rpm drives and 512 ram and all the usual stuff like mouse etc. put a delta sound card in it.
total if you shop wisely should be around 1k.
for multitrack software search the forum under my name.
or read the arch_jedi thread in the newbies section.
hope this helps.
PS - irrespective of all the other arguments, pc skills are a definite necessety
in todays working world and society. its a pc world. just my 2 canadian cents.
worth 1c us.

 

[tedluk]

Paul-

If you go the computer route, in addition to the computer you will need a soundcard/audio interface. M-Audio makes a number of inexpensive units with varying features in the $100.00 to $500.00 range. Look at the Audiophile 2496 or the Delta cards in particular. E-Mu also has some low priced cards. For laying down one track at a time all you really need is a two channel card.

You'll need software. On the low end N-Tracks and PowerTracks. These are pretty powerful pieces of software for the money. Also, and this is my bias here, look at Cakewalk's Home Studio. This is a low cost program ($149.00) with a lot of features. The nice thing is that it will offer you an upgrade path into the pro realm of SONAR when you're ready.

I'd suggest you check out all of these programs. N-Tracks has a forum here. I know there's a forum for PowerTracks at PG Music's site and Cakewalk has forums for all of their products on their site.

If you're only going to record one or two tracks at a time, to save money, you could get by without a mixer initially. There are some adequate mic pres from companies like Behringer and ART that would get you started.

There are a lot of Mics out there right now that are very inexpensive. Some of them are ok, but there are some terrible ones as well. Most would recommend, if you can afford it, to get at least one good quality mic. Studio Projects gets good reviews for their mics. This is a highly subjective area and there really aren't any "right" choices. A mic that sounds terrible in my room or on my voice (well, they all sound terrible on my voice!) might work well for you. There are a few mics that most everyone agrees are versatile and worth having like the Shure SM57.

Beyond these considerations, you will need some headphones and monitor speakers. These are needed whichever approach you decide on. There have been countless discussions of these topics on the forum. Right now, the Wharfdales are getting a lot of raves. I've never heard them, but they're quite popular because of their clean sound and low price. Others that merit consideration are the Behringer Truths (some people love 'em, some hate 'em), M-Audio has some inexpensive monitors, Alesis and KRK also are worth looking at. Again, highly subjective choice. Try to listen before you purchase. Headphones- AKG, Sony, Sennheiser and others all make good quality headphones. Unfortunately, it's hard to get a good pair for much under a $100.00.

Last you'll need to allow some money for cables, power conditioning, stands, etc. I don't know if you have any major music retailers in your area, but I've gotten some great deals on basic stands and such at Sam Ash and Guitar Center. They might not be great quality, but for my home studio, they're more than adequate.

Another nice thing about the big stores is that, after doing your research, you can get a chance to look at a lot of different gear before making a buying decision.

I know it's a lot to think about and absorb. Just break it down into smaller chunks and work out each one. The main thing to keep in mind throughout is viewing each item in terms of your objective. No matter how cool something looks or sounds, if it's not helping you achieve your objective, put it aside. So, before you buy anything, spend some time defining, as specifically as possible, what it is that you want to accomplish. Having this clarity of purpose will save you a lot of time and money.

Ted

 

[HeyHeyMyMy]

Hey guys, thanks for all the advice, it's a lot to swallow all at once. I'm still unsure if the PC route is right for me, but it's sounding so damn good. I may buy a Dell or something so I can finance it and thus, afford it.

They only have Intel processors in them though, which don't seem to be a favourite around here. For what I want to do though, I'm still considering getting a used 8 or 12 track digital standalone unit. If I can pay $400 or something and get a semi-decent setup that works well for what I want to do, that may be better. There are a couple Roland 880 units on eBay (damn eBay Canada really has a limited selection compared to the US one), as well as an Akai 12 track unit for $400. But then, I may have to buy an additional hard drive, etc. etc. and will still need to buy the a couple pre amps and what not.

I've got a kick ass, top of the line pair of Sony cans, so headphones aren't an issue... not like that was the big money item though. Could I use my Tascam 424mkIII as a mixer instead of purchasing one?

I will see if there are some other places to buy PCs around here too. I know there are some Intel units from a place around here for under $400. There's also this unit:

Specifications:
AMD Athlon XP2400+ CPU
256MB Memory
40GB Hard Drive
CDRW Drive (Records CDs)
DVD Drive (Reads DVDs)
Microsoft Windows XP Home

for $449. I know I would need to update the memory, but would that system suffice? Thanks again guys!

Paul

 

[manning1]

heres my suggestions.
the athlon is great. good for 60 tracks some folks get and more.
definitely get the 512 ram, and for an extra 80 bucks a second 7200 rpm drive. its a good idea to go wuith 2 drives. a small one for windows and a larger one for tracks. just check that athlon motherboard and tell us what chipset it has. ie: via or sis or nforce.
if you dont need the dvd drive youll find the price will drop a bit.
choose memory and a second drive over the dvd drive if money is tight.
put a delta sound card in it with a yamaha mg mixer and youll have a powerfull studio. assuming whoever built the athlon built it right.

 

[HeyHeyMyMy]

I'll check into it, but I think the pcs are already built and I doubt they'd switch the components. I could probably buy a barebones until with an Athlon processor and put it together myself as I've got a fair amount of pc knowledge. What kind of chipset should I be hoping for on the motherboard?

 

[HeyHeyMyMy]

VIA KT600 chipset

 

[manning1]

most people go for nvidea chipsets , though i have a sis chipset with
no problems.
before buying the computer i would ask the manufacturer of the sound card
eg maudio or whoever you choose as the pci sound card which chpiset they recommend the best for amd. prolly nvidea i suspect.
and be aware of this. sometimes ive seen fewer problems with cheaper motherboards than some of the more expensive ones.
a friend of mine bought a few months ago a really cheap athlon motherboard
for example and it runs great. in summary dont think paying big bucks for a motherboard automatically means perfection.
also my biggest tip , have the pci sound card as the only slot filled.
no fancy tv cards or video gamer cards that could interrupt audio.

 

[apl]

Hey, heyheymymy,

I recorded the song in my signature line using a Tascam US122 and Cubasis on a 750Mhz Duron with 256 MB RAM. For what you're proposing you don't need a rocket science computer. Put your money in the signal chain, and don't get skimpy on monitors. I've got Event PS6s that were $225 on ebay.

Give my song a listen, some say it sounds an awful lot like Neil Young. Some say it just sounds awful.