PC or Multitracker

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geoff956

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I mothballed my gear 17 years ago. Have Fostex A8 RtoR, Allen & Heath 16.8 desk, Korg Delta string synth, Roland TR808, SH101, MC202 plus a selection of effects. I also have a reasonable computer with a crap soundcard.
I used to build up my own tracks recording one at a time performing all the instruments and vocals myself, and I want to return to that idea but can't decide if it's better to get a sound card for the computer or buy a multitracker.
I don't wish to get too much into sequencing, other than laying down a drum track, and maybe a bass line. I was looking at the Fostex AW16G but wonder what sound I would get with that compared to a new card for the computer.
Problem is I haven't kept up to date with the gear and am pretty clueless in the digital dept.
Any help or advice gratefully received.
Many Thanks.
 
That's a Yamaha AW16G, by the way, not Fostex. I have an all in one unit (Korg D16), and a PC rig. Both have their strengths, but overall the PC is much better for most applications. If you plan to use a pc for recording though, it pretty much needs to be a P4 with at least 512 MB of ram minimum, and 2 hard drives. Otherwise, I'd go for the AW16G, a Korg D1600 mkII, or equivalent. What kind of PC do you have?
 
Bill Nelson made records on an A8 back in the day (he of BeBop Deluxe fame) and they were fine except for the quality of the recording. Since you've been away recording technology has jumped light years. Get an AW16g for $999 here:

http://www.zzounds.com/a--2676837/item--YAMAW16G

Then go here for friendly advice and links to more AW16G resources:

http://www.awinspire.com/

I've got one and if it got lost or stolen I would buy another one in a New York minute.
 
Thanks for replying. Of course I was getting mixed up with the Fostex VF160 (what's that like by the way?). My computer is an Advent 3115, with 512MB Ram,Athlon XP 2600+ and 60 GB hard disc. I've tried recording straight into the computer but of course the latency is a problem. I also want to get rid of my old mixer and get something smaller and more up to date. I can't realisically mix down on the computer can I?
If so how do you move several faders at once?
Sorry if these questions are dumb.
Thanks again.
 
You don't need a mixer, unless you really want one. You can mixdown in your computer with any multitrack software. Your computer is probably fine, but you'd likely need to upgrade your soundcard if you want to deal with latency issues. The Echo Mia Midi is a good card if you only need a couple of inputs at a time. (Actually you can use 4 with the digital ins). A second hard drive would be recommended as well.

On the other hand, you might be just as happy with the Yamaha, Korg, or Tascam 2488 ...
 
Thanks again for your help. I can probably manage with two inputs as I record one track at a time usually. I'll certainly check out the Echo card.
What can you recommend in the way of multitrack software? I'd need something pretty straightforward, as I'm definitely more musically than technically inclined. I've had a dabble with Cubasis VST5 and that's about it.
Also, the "how do you move several faders at once on a computer?" issue still bugs me.
 
geoff . for a great multitracker that will record 48 tracks of midi and/or digital audio check out the demo of powertracks at pgmusic.com.
i use it all the time. if you think i'm lying talk to the thousands of other happy users on the powertracks forum at pgmusic.com.
your latency issues are caused by a poor sound card probably.
consumer sound that comes with pc's is prone to this.
i would suggest a better sound card.
by the way you CAN mix down on the computer. i do it all the time.
check out i'm too old to rock and roll and many other songs of mine at soundclick.com.
by the way if your a dab hand at diy mic pre's you can build good ones for
20 bucks. the i'm too old song used diy mic pre's.
there are tons of schematics on the net. but if you want to do hard core electronics diy (which ive found in some cases i can build better than commercial pre's using diy) take a adult short electronics course covering fets,transistors and op amps so you know how to build circuits safely.
all the best. by the way that system of yours should do 48 track multitrack easily if properly set up. way more than a standalone system.
 
A lot of programs let you program fader movements.

Its still no the same as real faders, but it works if you only have a mouse.

Otherwise look into a usb/firewire mixing controller.
 
geoff956 said:
Thanks for replying. Of course I was getting mixed up with the Fostex VF160 (what's that like by the way?).
Click to expand...

The Fostex VF160's are very, very nice machines. Great value, very stable, clean recordings. Though it's digital, it kind of behaves like an analogue tape machine. I love mine. You would find editing on a VF160 a dream compared to analogue, but not as quick or easy as on a PC. I haven't read through all the posts, but one thing I'd ask is if your PC would only be used for audio/video production. I say this because if other software is added, there's always the hassle of settings that change, etc. My current PC is one that has never appeared to be configured properly, but heaven knows who can figure it out. Also, PC's have significant fan noise (the VF160 doesn't) that will easily be picked up by a condensor mic in the same room... The aw16G is also very quiet.
 
To quote John Shirley in Recording mag (March 2004)...

"While some [stand-alone DAWS) come close to offering the editing and mixing power of their computer-based breathren (minus the generous display possible on a computer monitor), they give up some of the flexibility in expansion and upgrade for greater reliability and simplicity of use. Their stability is further enhanced becaue their funtion is limited to audio tracks only."

As a very satisfied user of the Yamaha aw16g, who'd buy another tomorrow if mine was caught in hurricane Frances, I'd add that these stand-alones also offer easy portability, either in the home or on the road.

For me, the above sums up what I contemplated while deciding a couple fo years ago. For you, the balance of needs might be quite different.

Happy choosing,

J.
 
jeffree....with respect standalones are a good solution until
the dreaded day the product goes down. ive been burnt many times in the past on this issue. at least with a pc its easy to replace a defective motherboard. standalone units today are full of smt.
 
Manning, you certainly could be right, but I have nearly two years of daily use with the aw16g without a freeze or crash of any type--I wish I could say that for my two PCs. Plus, I have all of my audio projects backed up on CD-RWs, so I'm not feeling too worried yet. Knock on wood. But as you point out, if the 16g goes down, there would indeed be a delay while it's fixed.

J.
 
billisa said:
The Fostex VF160's are very, very nice machines. Great value, very stable, clean recordings. Though it's digital, it kind of behaves like an analogue tape machine. I love mine.
Click to expand...

I'll second that.
 
jeffree.....you said you had pc crashes etc.
if you list your confign i might be able to pinpoint why as
ive been in the comp industry for years.
if you have an open mind try what i use on my pc's - powertracks from pgmusic.com. the demo is free to try. just try the demo - it will even work with junk on board sound cards. keep an open mind - take it for a spin,
note the huge number of audio tracks and the extensive midi features.
then muck around with the built in ech/rvb/chorus/flange and many other plug ins. keep an open mind and really really delve deep.
i and many thousands of others love it. i think you might be surprised and find a new use for your pc. also NOTE - the very deep and extensive midi and digital audio editing features that a lot of standalones dont give you.
i think you will agree after trying it - at 29 bucks its a no brainer.
ive turned loads of frustrated musicians/friends onto this pkge and had not
one complaint. most say - my god i wish i knew about this before.
most are amazed at the value for money.
if you want laptop portability a lot of musicians run it on a laptop when they are the road to get ideas for songs down as well.
anyway if you think i'm lying just try it and talk to other users on the forum at pgmusic. i bet you thank me !
 
Manning, Getting back to your comments about latency. I now know I need a better card, but tell me if I have this right. If I record a track, then play it back while recording a second track, I get the latency.
If I monitor the second track at or before the input rather than at the output would it then work?
Thanks again.
 
geoff - i really dont know your set up on pc.
if your getting latency it can be a number of issues.
like sound card drivers.
BUT TRY THIS TECHNIQUE. tell me if you still get latency doing this.
plug your sound card output into an old cassette deck.
plug phones into the cassette deck while recording track 2 listening
back as well to track 1. or you could plug sound card out into a home hi fi
receiver and plug phones into the receiver.
where some people run into problems is recording to and playing back from the soundcard using a very small mixer.
if you are in a situation with a baby mixer, only use it for sending mic signals to the sound card and the cassette deck to monitor FROM the sound card.
big studios in fact use two mixers often. one feeding the recording multitracks and the second monitoring from and mixing down from the multitracks. its a simialr idea.
if you still get latency with the cassette deck idea tell me more about your pc set up. i get no latency problems on my pc daw.
a few years back i did but it was a bad sound card so i got rid of it.
 
Manning, Thanks for replying so promptly. Will try as you suggest and let you know how I get on.
 
Thanks for the tips, Manning. I appreciate your time and effort. But no, for now I'm totally happy with my yamaha aw16g--I know it so well that I can fly around it like I used to do with my tascam cassette rig, which allows me to focus more on my music and less on the engineering (I'm a musician first). I'll remember this thread, though, if I ever think of switching.

Best,

J.
 
Fostex VF160 user here. No problems and love it. The Yamaha's rock as well!


Personally, I will never mutlitrack on a PC ever again. Pro-Tool rigged Macintosh (If someone will buy me one) possibly... but nothing beats a "STABLE" stand-alone unit. I swear it's the best decision I've made in years.

Hell, for the price of Cubase alone you can get an awesome stand-alone digital recorder.



//AdrianFly
 
manning1 said:
geoff - i really dont know your set up on pc.
if your getting latency it can be a number of issues.
like sound card drivers.
BUT TRY THIS TECHNIQUE. tell me if you still get latency doing this.
plug your sound card output into an old cassette deck.
plug phones into the cassette deck while recording track 2 listening
back as well to track 1. or you could plug sound card out into a home hi fi
receiver and plug phones into the receiver.
where some people run into problems is recording to and playing back from the soundcard using a very small mixer.
if you are in a situation with a baby mixer, only use it for sending mic signals to the sound card and the cassette deck to monitor FROM the sound card.
big studios in fact use two mixers often. one feeding the recording multitracks and the second monitoring from and mixing down from the multitracks. its a simialr idea.
if you still get latency with the cassette deck idea tell me more about your pc set up. i get no latency problems on my pc daw.
a few years back i did but it was a bad sound card so i got rid of it.
Click to expand...

I was using my mixer as a mic pre and then into my M-Audio quattro usb and plugging my headphones into the quattro to monitor and by 2nd take is at a slower tempo.. it gradually gets slower and out of time than the first track... what do I do now?
 
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