Pay to get your song performed/recorded/mixed/mastered

[ido1957]

I clicked on a link on this board for pro mixing/mastering services. The rates seemed pretty fair say 300 a song. Then I clicked a little deeper and found they were offering a full 5 piece band to perform/record your song and I assume mix and master for $1600+. My little 10 song EP would have been 16,000 + .... Although the rates are probably fair, it was a bit of sticker shock. I guess big studios spend way more but for a little singer/songwriter it's beyond my means. I kind of wonder how much better my songs would be lol. If I had the money though it would be fun to see. Then I'd probably want to do them all lol...

 

[mjbphotos]

Don't do it! Sounds like that 'Hilltop Records' place that sent me a snailmail a couple of weeks ago. Check with some of the MEs here (massive, for example). I think $300/song is on the high side unless you are talking about a well-established ME at a well-known studio.

 

[Greg_L]

There's no reason to pay anyone for anything as far as playing or recording music goes. Sure, buy your gear, don't steal it, but after that you don't need anyone for anything.

 

[Chili]

Well, I think this is a little different than the scam artist studios. There are legit studios out there who will cut demos for you. They serve the non-musician songwriting crowd. They don't guarantee sales, connections, royalties, millions, fans, record deals, or anything. They get paid upfront to put your songs to music. They leave it to you to get the song published or cut by a performing artist or make your own millions.

I have thought about offering that type of service for local songwriters who can't otherwise record a demo.

 

[RAMI]

Why the fuck would anyone even consider this?

 

[Chili]

There are people out there who want to write songs without playing an instrument. I've attended songwriter groups and met these people and some will pay for a studio to perform and record their song. I know of one guy who made millions and can't play scratch; Jake Blume.

 

[Greg_L]

Lol. So what do they do? How does that work? "I got this song in my head, it goes 'da da daaaa da da' ". Okay here's my money, play it and record it.

 

[miroslav]

Why the fuck would anyone even consider this?

Like Chili said...there are singer/songwriters who play....nothing, and have no home-rec gear.
Unless they have their own band and the recording gear, there's no other way for them to record a song, and some of them are willing to drop a couple of $k to get maybe a couple of song demos done so they can shop that around.

There are even guys who can play some instruments, but don't want to be bothered setting up a home studio, going through all the learnings curves, spending the money on gear....before they can actually record a decent product.

I mean....to each his own, if you have the $$$ and want to go that route...it's your choice.

 

[miroslav]

Lol. So what do they do? How does that work? "I got this song in my head, it goes 'da da daaaa da da' ". Okay here's my money, play it and record it.

Well, I think you would need to write it out on paper....

 

[RAMI]

Miro, I understand what you and Chili are saying. But then that brings us to Greg's question.

I worded my comment wrong. I should have said "Why the fuck would Ido even consider this". He's a great musician who puts great recordings together. No way a bunch of bozos that don't have their hearts in his music are going to do a better job than him and his band.

 

[Greg_L]

Well, I think you would need to write it out on paper....

Lol. Yeah, "Ok so I was at McDonalds and had a song idea so I scribbled it on a happy meal receipt. It goes A, C, D, A, C, D#, D. Okay, here's my money, play it and record it."

 

[RAMI]

Lol. Yeah, "Ok so I was at McDonalds and had a song idea so I scribbled it on a happy meal receipt. It goes A, C, D, A, C, D#, D. Okay, here's my money, play it and record it."

Except for the second verse, which goes Da-da-da-dum instead of Da-dum-da-dum.

 

[Chili]

Lol. So what do they do? How does that work? "I got this song in my head, it goes 'da da daaaa da da' ". Okay here's my money, play it and record it.

Umm, yeah basically.

If I were to provide a service like that, I would probably charge about $200 per song for a basic guitar/vocal demo including charting out the song and basic arrangement. I would probably charge about $500 for a "full band" demo. If I needed a female singer, my neighbor is killer good and I would pay her $50 per song.

 

[Chili]

Miro, I understand what you and Chili are saying. But then that brings us to Greg's question.

I worded my comment wrong. I should have said "Why the fuck would Ido even consider this". He's a great musician who puts great recordings together. No way a bunch of bozos that don't have their hearts in his music are going to do a better job than him and his band.

Oh definitely. A demo service is not for someone like Ido. He can perform and record his songs. And he does his songs like no one else can (except maybe Eric Claption). But there are still many people who want to write songs and don't have the skills.

In the rock world, the artist writes his own songs. In pop and country, most artists use other people's songs. There is a whole industry for songwriters and a demo studio is part of that industry.

 

[miroslav]

I'm sure some of the money goes toward the pre-production phase....trying to decipher what the songwriter intended/wrote on his Micky D's receipt.

I know the whole thing may sound odd here, where most people are already doing some kind of home-rec....but there are even singers who don't write, and they may get someone else to write a song, and all they do is sing while a bunch of other musicians play/record the rest.
For someone who can write, but doesn't sing or play...they need someone else to do both. I mean, there ARE successful songwriters who never sang or played a single note on any recordings of their songs.

 

[Greg_L]

I mean, there ARE successful songwriters who never sang or played a single note on any recordings of their songs.

For sure, but those people still play instruments. Whether it's sitting at a piano or with a guitar, pretty much every songwriter that I've ever heard of can play an instrument and usually do so as part of the writing process. Even that deaf composer guy back in the stone ages could play a piano. You don't get to the point that you can write notes on a staff and know how it's all going to go together without being able to play it on some level.

I suppose this stuff is just for people looking to make money. Sell to the highest bidder. Get their stuff on Budget rent-a-car commercials and Law and Order. Maybe sell a song to someone that can actually sing or play. They're not interested in artistic or creative integrity, they just wanna sell it. That's cool. Nothing wrong with that. It's foreign to me, but whatever.

 

[Chili]

For sure, but those people still play instruments.

No, some don't. That guy I referred to in an earlier post doesn't play an instrument and has no real musical ability at all and has a few #1 pop songs. He even wrote a book about songwriting and NOT being a musician. He pays to get his demos cut like we're talking about then he goes and finds an artist to pick it up, record it, put it on their album and sell it. He get his $0.0091 per song sold.

I got his name wrong, it's Jason Blume
Songwriting with Jason Blume - You CAN Write Hit Songs

 

[Greg_L]

No, some don't. That guy I referred to in an earlier post doesn't play an instrument and has no real musical ability at all and has a few #1 pop songs. He even wrote a book about songwriting and NOT being a musician. He pays to get his demos cut like we're talking about then he goes and finds an artist to pick it up, record it, put it on their album and sell it. He get his $0.0091 per song sold.

I got his name wrong, it's Jason Blume
Songwriting with Jason Blume - You CAN Write Hit Songs

So what's his method? How does he, not knowing anything about how two notes work together, get his ideas into the hands that can play music and record it? Does literally hum a few sounds to someone and they run with it?

 

[miroslav]

For sure, but those people still play instruments. Whether it's sitting at a piano or with a guitar, pretty much every songwriter that I've ever heard of can play an instrument and usually do so as part of the writing process. Even that deaf composer guy back in the stone ages could play a piano. You don't get to the point that you can write notes on a staff and know how it's all going to go together without being able to play it on some level.

Yes, people who can write often play at some level or at least know enough theory to be able to write stuff out, though we're not talking about classical and opera, mind you, where you really need some composition skills, but basic Pop/Rock/R&B/Country "songwriting". Some people just write the lyrics and hum the melody...and that's the start of a "song".

Thing is....I know people who can "play" the piano and the guitar enough to come up with songs...but could never play those instruments well enough to record.

Recent true story...
The female singe I was working with this summer was one of those people.
She sang in Rock bands for 20+ years and had a pretty good voice, and she said she had some formal training in piano....but she couldn't/wouldn't play any keys for recording, and her songs were basically lyrics and melody...she didn't even know what the chords were to her own songs. The "demos" she gave me...someone else came up with the chords and played the instruments for her.
The funny thing was....she thought that working with me, she was recording "her solo album"... ....meanwhile I was doing 95% of the recording work, and all she did was come in to sing a few times. I even had to take her lyrics/melody and figure out the chords (not a big deal) and then arrange all the music so that we (err, I mean, so that I) could than do all the tracking for the songs.
When she said that...about how she thought this was her "recording her solo album"....we kinda went our separate ways.
I mean, I wasn't going to spend countess hours doing all that.....on "her solo album".

Anyway...there are those people out there who need someone else to pretty much do everything. So, if they have the money to pay for someone else to do it for them...they pay for it.
Not any different than hiring session musicians/arrangers/singers.....something that's been going on since recording began.

 

[Greg_L]

Yes, people who can write often play at some level or at least know enough theory to be able to write stuff out, though we're not talking about classical and opera, mind you, where you really need some composition skills, but basic Pop/Rock/R&B/Country "songwriting". Some people just write the lyrics and hum the melody...and that's the start of a "song".

Thing is....I know people who can "play" the piano and the guitar enough to come up with songs...but could never play those instruments well enough to record.

Recent true story...
The female singe I was working with this summer was one of those people.
She sang in Rock bands for 20+ years and had a pretty good voice, and she said she had some formal training in piano....but she couldn't/wouldn't play any keys for recording, and her songs were basically lyrics and melody...she didn't even know what the chords were to her own songs. The "demos" she gave me...someone else came up with the chords and played the instruments for her.
The funny thing was....she thought that working with me, she was recording "her solo album"... ....meanwhile I was doing 95% of the recording work, and all she did was come in to sing a few times. I even had to take her lyrics/melody and figure out the chords (not a big deal) and then arrange all the music so that we (err, I mean, so that I) could than do all the tracking for the songs.
When she said that...about how she thought this was her "recording her solo album"....we kinda went our separate ways.
I mean, I wasn't going to spend countess hours doing all that.....on "her solo album".

Anyway...there are those people out there who need someone else to pretty much do everything. So, if they have the money to pay for someone else to do it for them...they pay for it.
Not any different than hiring session musicians/arrangers/singers.....something that's been going on since recording began.

Everyone knows about using session players. Not everyone can play everything. No problem there. Not everyone wants to play or play live. No problem there either. I'm talking about a songwriter not knowing jack squat about playing one single note of music. I'm wondering how does that guy get his "song" ideas into the hands of people that can play it. Like my dad....he doesn't know a bass guitar from a saxophone. He couldn't carry a tune in a bucket. He can't tap his hands or feet along to an AC/DC song. He has no musical wiring whatsoever. He knows absolutely nothing about writing a song or playing an instrument of any kind. How would he get some song he's written in his head to someone that could make it happen? This is what I'm curious about. Not the validity. Just how it's done.