Patent/Copyright Question

[BrentDomann]

I was thinking of building a pedal or two this summer just for laughs. I always wondered, though, what it takes to call a design "your own".

I know Marshall made a hell of a living copying Fender amp circuits way back when. It seems often new amps are rehashings or combinations of rehashings of old models.

Why isn't anyone getting sued? And for me, if I wanted to tweak my own box, and my friends happened to want copies, how far do I have to go to avoid copyright/patent infringement? One capacitor? Two? Twenty?

 

[Light]

I was thinking of building a pedal or two this summer just for laughs. I always wondered, though, what it takes to call a design "your own".

I know Marshall made a hell of a living copying Fender amp circuits way back when. It seems often new amps are rehashings or combinations of rehashings of old models.

Why isn't anyone getting sued? And for me, if I wanted to tweak my own box, and my friends happened to want copies, how far do I have to go to avoid copyright/patent infringement? One capacitor? Two? Twenty?

Well, the reason Fender never sued Marshall is that Fender didn't invent any of those designs. If you look at them, they come almost whole cloth from the RCA design books. And of course, Marshall always made some small changes.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[BrentDomann]

Thanks, Light. I have one more question: How small of a change might be necessary today? That is, how different is different enough?

In looking at amp circuits, it seems that Marshall changed the values in their "tone stacks" - which if I'm guessing right is their EQ circuit. But could something that small be enough to avoid the legal attention of a competitor?

 

[rushofblood]

It seems like as long as you change the name, and the way it looks, you can get away with it if you're not mentioning the actual name of the product you're copying. You could probably drop an amp's electronics into another skin and call it your own.

 

[Light]

My understanding is that the only part of an electronics design which is copyrightable is the actual drawing of the circuit and the layout. If you change both of those, copyright shouldn't be an issue. Pattents only apply if there is a new concept in the circuit, which there never is, so that also shouldn't be an issue. Remember, the issue with the whole Roland/Boss v. Behringer case was; 1) a trade dress issue, and 2) out right lies on the part of Behringer at NAMM when they were telling dealers that Roland had given their consent to the Behringer pedals. (By the by, I just read today that that case has been settled, with the terms of the deal being confidential).


But of course, if you want any real answers you need to talk to a copyright/patent attorney.


Even if what you do IS actionable (which I doubt), if you are only doing a few it shouldn't be an issue.



Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[ggunn]

I was thinking of building a pedal or two this summer just for laughs. I always wondered, though, what it takes to call a design "your own".

I know Marshall made a hell of a living copying Fender amp circuits way back when. It seems often new amps are rehashings or combinations of rehashings of old models.

Why isn't anyone getting sued? And for me, if I wanted to tweak my own box, and my friends happened to want copies, how far do I have to go to avoid copyright/patent infringement? One capacitor? Two? Twenty?

As long as you are not making enough money with this to where the original designers notice it (how are they going to know?), regardless of whether what you are doing is infringement or not, you won't have a problem.

What it takes to call a design your own, from an ethical standpoint, is vague. Some would insist that you start from the theory, a deep understanding of the way electrons behave passing through resistors, inductors, capacitors, tube elements, etc. and build the whole thing from scratch, never looking at another schematic. Of course, virtually no one ever does that... ;^)

 

[mshilarious]

As long as you are not making enough money with this to where the original designers notice it (how are they going to know?), regardless of whether what you are doing is infringement or not, you won't have a problem.

As Light pointed out, nearly every analog circuit design is long out of patent. Most of the flavors of distortion out there were done in the '60s and '70s. Newer designs, especially digital stuff, might still be under patent, but most DIYers don't bother with digital circuits.

If you do a digital design and sell it, you could have problems with FCC regs if you don't have it tested for compliance. Behringer found that out the hard way. Stick to analog circuits with wall warts, and you'll be fine.