Patching with the 388

  • Thread starter Thread starter j.harv
  • Start date Start date
That's correct.

And just for fun you can test the half-normal thing and plug a cable into the upper "send" jack on the front and plug the other end into something that will allow you to monitor that send and:

  1. you should have signal there and
  2. plugging the cable into that upper jack in the patchbay shouldn't interrupt the flow through the mixer channel

And, yes, you shouldn't have to have anything plugged into the front of the patchbay when you don't need to use the SEND/RCV jack function on the 388 and you should be able to use that channel of the 388 as you normally would...like its not even patched to the patchbay.
 
Sorry for bringing this up again but I forgot to ask.

Do the eff and aux ins and outs need to be normaled on the patch bay,or can these go straight thru.

Thanks.
 
Straight through. Those aren't normalled to anything on the 388.

Though that doesn't mean you can't normal them to something else in your gear array.

That's the primary value of a nromalling patchbay...saves cables and time making connections.

If there are units to which you would usually have your effect send output(s) and/or aux buss output(s) connected, then you can normal those connections in the patchbay and then break those connections when you plug patch cables to the front jacks of those buss connections on the patchbay and then to inputs of other devices.

Not trying to confuse the matter.
 
Hi,

I'm doing the same thing as you. :) The thing with the box on the floor is called a 'snake' I think getting a rackmount XLR is also a good idea. Maybe use the effects out for the effects send?
 
Hi,

This is why I would use a rack xlr. I have a HHB Radius 10 with four pres.
 
patchez?

Hi.

Can I not use TRS for patching from the 388 insert patchbay to an effects pb? Does that make sense? Does the pb for the 388 have be half-normalled? If you use the pb in 'break and listen' can you not send and recieve with trs? what if you want to do this with stereo effects?

KC
 
Resurrecting this from the grave. This has been a really helpful thread.

I just ordered this patchbay https://reverb.com/item/78824841-sa...are&utm_campaign=listing&utm_content=78824841 and am looking on clarification on what cables a should be using going from the 388 to the patchbay. I am going to be hooking the line ins and the SND/RCV jacks to the patchbay where I will also have compressors and external mic pre amps hooked up. I also plan on hooking up my Universal Audio Apollo 8 to the patchbay.

I am confused about the unbalanced/balanced thing. Can I just use ts-ts cables from the 388 to the patchbay like these? https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CPP801--hosa-cpp801-1-meter

Then would I use ts-ts cables to use on the patchbay?

Sorry for the multiple questions. I just would love clarification before moving forward. @sweetbeats im looking at you. 😂
 
Couple of thoughts regarding patch bays. In general, don't mix TRS with XLR mics connectors even with adapter cables.
XLRs carrying phantom power will cause loud pops if routed through jacks. Also IF 48V CAN appear on a jack, sure enough one day it will find its way to something that does not like it! That something could be the OUTPUT of another piece of gear. Inputs on most decently designed kit are protected from random voltages (but maybe not as much as 48V) but outputs rarely so. Usually all you want to do with mic inputs is 'move' them to a more convenient place?
I don't want to spread alarm and despondency about phantom power, it is quite a low power and 'in its p;ace' will do no harm but keep it from kit not designed to handle it. Back in the day when all we had was valves, they did not give a **** about a paltry 40 odd volts. Transistors are not so tough.

Re the question "what to do about unbalanced connections?" Balance them! If you can. Outputs can be 'impedance' balanced or you can use transformers. Inputs not so easy, you can get "10k 10k bridging" transformers but they are big and expensive. Otherwise just wire unbalanced sources and sinks without the third wire and deal with any problems as they arise. Generally, over short runs, <10mtrs, you won't have problems because most gear has a low output resistance, usually about 100 Ohms.

Have fun.

Dave.
 
ecc83 said:
Couple of thoughts regarding patch bays. In general, don't mix TRS with XLR mics connectors even with adapter cables.
XLRs carrying phantom power will cause loud pops if routed through jacks. Also IF 48V CAN appear on a jack, sure enough one day it will find its way to something that does not like it! That something could be the OUTPUT of another piece of gear. Inputs on most decently designed kit are protected from random voltages (but maybe not as much as 48V) but outputs rarely so. Usually all you want to do with mic inputs is 'move' them to a more convenient place?
I don't want to spread alarm and despondency about phantom power, it is quite a low power and 'in its p;ace' will do no harm but keep it from kit not designed to handle it. Back in the day when all we had was valves, they did not give a **** about a paltry 40 odd volts. Transistors are not so tough.

Re the question "what to do about unbalanced connections?" Balance them! If you can. Outputs can be 'impedance' balanced or you can use transformers. Inputs not so easy, you can get "10k 10k bridging" transformers but they are big and expensive. Otherwise just wire unbalanced sources and sinks without the third wire and deal with any problems as they arise. Generally, over short runs, <10mtrs, you won't have problems because most gear has a low output resistance, usually about 100 Ohms.

Have fun.

Dave.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I’m not planning on using my XLR/Mic inputs in my patchbay. I already have a snake for that.

I guess I still don’t understand what cables can be used. I know I’ve seen people use patchbays without buying expensive transformers or converter boxes. The journey continues.
 
aquestionmark said:
Resurrecting this from the grave. This has been a really helpful thread.

I just ordered this patchbay https://reverb.com/item/78824841-sa...are&utm_campaign=listing&utm_content=78824841 and am looking on clarification on what cables a should be using going from the 388 to the patchbay. I am going to be hooking the line ins and the SND/RCV jacks to the patchbay where I will also have compressors and external mic pre amps hooked up. I also plan on hooking up my Universal Audio Apollo 8 to the patchbay.

I am confused about the unbalanced/balanced thing. Can I just use ts-ts cables from the 388 to the patchbay like these? https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CPP801--hosa-cpp801-1-meter

Then would I use ts-ts cables to use on the patchbay?

Sorry for the multiple questions. I just would love clarification before moving forward. @sweetbeats im looking at you. 😂
Click to expand...
Yes, just use TS-TS cables between the 388 and the patchbay, and TS-TS patch cables. The LINE IN jacks and SEND and RCV jacks are all unbalanced on the 388, so no reason to use more expensive TRS cables, and it’s fine to do all this with a balanced patchbay. It won’t care. Make sure the patchbay jacks interfacing the SEND and RCV jacks are normalled, either full or half. When you plug cables into the SEND or RCV jacks on one of the 388s input channels, it breaks the signal to the rest of that channel. The 388 expects the signal will go through a device. If you plug up to the SEND and RCV jacks and then don’t have the other end of the cables going through a device, like when they go to a patchbay, then you’ll have no signal through the channel. But if the tip and shield of the cables are internally connected in the patchbay through normalling contacts, then signal flows even with nothing patched. Then the contacts are broken in the patchbay when you patch to a device and signal still flows. Hope that makes sense.
 
sweetbeats said:
Yes, just use TS-TS cables between the 388 and the patchbay, and TS-TS patch cables. The LINE IN jacks and SEND and RCV jacks are all unbalanced on the 388, so no reason to use more expensive TRS cables, and it’s fine to do all this with a balanced patchbay. It won’t care. Make sure the patchbay jacks interfacing the SEND and RCV jacks are normalled, either full or half. When you plug cables into the SEND or RCV jacks on one of the 388s input channels, it breaks the signal to the rest of that channel. The 388 expects the signal will go through a device. If you plug up to the SEND and RCV jacks and then don’t have the other end of the cables going through a device, like when they go to a patchbay, then you’ll have no signal through the channel. But if the tip and shield of the cables are internally connected in the patchbay through normalling contacts, then signal flows even with nothing patched. Then the contacts are broken in the patchbay when you patch to a device and signal still flows. Hope that makes sense.
Click to expand...
Thank you so much @sweetbeats! This is exactly the clarification I was looking for. I will have these jacks half-normalled for all the send/rcv jacks so they can match the way the jacks act on the back of the 388 like you explained in this thread.

Should I have all of my other inserts half-norm on the patchbay as well? I've posted a screen shot of my plan so far. I have 3 open input slots I am not sure what to do with still. :unsure:

patchbay.png


Let me know what you think. Thanks again for the help. :-)
 
You don’t have to use all the jack sets. Leave your open ones open until your workflow tells you you need to use them…or tells you you need five 96 point patchbays.

I can’t say how you want to configure the rest of your jack sets…that really depends on your workflow. I think in most cases full normal is what is used…it all depends on whether or not you want to be able to send a signal to multiple places by being able to “sniff” the signal by plugging to the top jack without breaking the signal to the channel. That’s half normal. But in a lot of cases, like with AUX sends, whatever you have an AUX send normalled to, if you’re going to patch that AUX send over to some other input, you WANT the path broken when you plug the patch cable to the upper jack. So I’d typically configure full normal except on maybe like direct or summing outputs where I might want to send the signal to a tape machine AND the DAW interface as a safety or something.
 
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