Patch bay needed. Clueless ..... well, i have a clue, but....

[Muckelroy]

I'm looking for a patch bay/setup idea, that will allow me to do the following signal flow:

up to 8 mic inputs, normalized to mic pre's 1-8 on my mixer (which, by the way, I still haven't decided on.)

Output of mixer channel to some type of connection/bus in

Output of bus directly to tascam 38 8-track 1/2" tape machine.

Output of tape machine normalized to 8 tracks on my mixer (unless it's possible to use the first 8 as well?)

IN ADDITION, output of aux sends to gear/channel of choice, and return of aux sends to channel of choice.



So, to sum it all up, I'm thinking that I'll need a patch bay which will Normalize (default)the following signal flow:

mic in, to board in, board out to bus in, bus out to tape machine in.
tape mach. out to mix board in.

Because I'd like to be able to bypass the board when tracking to tape, I'd like for the tape machine inputs (or busses) to be patch-board based, not mixing board based.

The reason I'd like a patch bay is to not only normalize the above signal flow, but to allow me to switch flow at the following points:

between mic in and board in, between bus out and tape machine in. Also, to assign patch points to the aux send and returns.

I hope somebody sees eye to eye with this one. Not trying to confuze the hell outta anyone.

THANKS!

 

[MadAudio]

Yeah, your post is a bit confusing. I had to read it a few times to figure out the question.

The only way you can bypass the mixer when using mics is to have outboard pre-amps. You cannot plug mics directly into the 38.

Patchbays are used as line level routers. Your idea of using one for aux sends is a typical example of patchbay use.

In my old set-up, I had the channel inserts of my mixer hooked up to the patch bay, and via the patchbay had the inputs of my Tascam 38 normalled to insert sends 1-8. The 38's outputs were assigned to channel inputs 9-16 of my mixer for monitoring.

 

[A Reel Person]

Eh,...

...The only way you can bypass the mixer when using mics is to have outboard pre-amps. ...

No,... you can utilize the preamps off yer typical recording mixer, using D-OUT's (direct-outs) to tap the preamp feed directly while bypassing the main-mix section.

 

[Muckelroy]

hmm.

SO, what kind of mixer would I need? If I got a mixer with a direct out on each mic preamp, does that direct out go ONLY through the preamp? I suppose it's dependent on the board -- in that case, which boards will have direct outputs that will allow me to bypass everything else on the board channel completeley, except for the preamp? (It would also be nice to be able to tie in the board channel's EQ if I wanted to. So it would need an EQ with an on/off switch of some sort) I would have no need for using the level sliders when tracking to tape. I just wanna use the board's mic preamp, and/or the board EQ, and feed that to a direct out. Is this possible? and w/ what boards?

I wouldn't mind manually unplugging and reconnecting mic cables on the backside of my rack, board, and tape machine all the time, just it'd be nice to normalize it all w/ a patch bay. That way, if I wanted to, I could run a patch from the mic to an external mic input. THen patch the output of that mic preamp directly to the tape machine inputs, which would also be on that patch bay. Of course, if all the compressors, and EQ's and effects racks are also on the patch bay, I could run that mic signal through any or ALL of that gear before it goes to tape machine input.

Then, I'd want to use the patch bay to patch my aux sends on the board to outboard gear, and to patch which channel that outboard gear's returning to on the board.

One more question - If I found a board that does ALL the stuff as I mentioned in the first paragraph, could the following scenario be possible: Could I use channel 1's preamp and/or EQ to control the signal going to tape, and then use the slider/pan on that same channel to mix the output of the tape machine? In addition, could I use the board's EQ to EQ the tape output as well? See, I'm thinking that a board in my price range will have a channel input, which will send the signal to the mic pre, and/or the eq, a direct output which will output that signal and bypass the pan/sliders, and a main channel/mix output which will output the signal after going through everything (pan, sliders, eq, preamp, everything). In other words, the board which I'm dreading in my mind will not have more than one input per channel. So I'd only be able to use a channel for EITHER tape input, OR tape output mixing. Is there a way to easily switch the function of a board channel between the two?

thanks! just looking for a good board, in conjunction w/ a good patch bay, preferable balanced.

-callie-

 

[MOFO Pro]

phew... my head hurts...

In a nut shell you can do all of that with most mixing desks... just not all at the same time... you can patch your line I/O through a bay to reconfigure for tracking and mixing... plug your mikes directly into your preamp or board... don't feed 48 volt phantom power through the patch bay...

 

[Muckelroy]

ok

Ok, since I seem to be doing nothing but confuzing you guys, and myself, and since I kinda got it figured out some more, lemme ask this question, hopefully minus the headaches.

What is a good mixing board to use? Let's just say.....16 track board, w/ good 3-band sweeping EQ?

What is a good patch bay to use? I guess I'll just need one with 64 total ports, so, 2 rows of 32 connections:

8 for mic connections
16 for board inputs 1-16
8 for tape machine in
8 for tape machine out
8 for rack gear ins
8 for rack gear outs
4 for aux sends 1-4,
4 for aux returns 1-4

Are patch bays hard-wired such that whatever signal's going to the top connection automatically goes to the connection right below it? Are they configurable in that manner? As in, can you hard-wire it so that whatever goes into a port is normalled to the port below it, but only on ones of YOUR choosing?

I'm used to the professional patch bay at the Firestation studio, and it's got connections up the WAZOO. Now, in the mid-grade market, I keep seeing all these patch bays with just 2 rows of connections. Just trying to figure out how that all works.

-callie-

 

[Muckelroy]

A HA HAH AHAHAHA! I think I get it now! It helps to use the search feature on this forum.

If I wanted the top an bottom jacks to be normalled, then I'd just set it to Half-normalled, which i'm told, is default for most patch bays. If I want them to function independently of each other (such as an input of an effects module, and a seperate output of that effects module) I'd flip the card around and make it de-normalized. Awesome.

Looks like I'll need 2 48-point patch bays, just to accomodate what I'll have, and to make room for expansion in the future. NOW THEN, what's a good brand for a balanced bay?

-callie-

 

[MadAudio]

No,... you can utilize the preamps off yer typical recording mixer, using D-OUT's (direct-outs) to tap the preamp feed directly while bypassing the main-mix section.

Well, of course. But how is using the mixer not using it? I think the original post confused me more than I thought!

 

[Muckelroy]

Lemme explain,

The reason I wanted to set it up this way, using a patch bay, is so that I can bypass the board altogether when sending the signal to tape, if I WANTED to. Who's never used an outboard tube mic preamp to amplify their mic, to get that nice, PHAT, RICH sound? Often, running the signal ONLY through that preamp, and then straight to tape input, will give much more pleasing results than using the mixer's preamp and/or slider controls.

OF course, it's normalized to go straight to the mixer and use that preamp, BUT the only way to bypass it conveniently w/out running cables all over the damn place, would be to use a patch bay configuration, like above.

Forget about my first post. HA. I was a bit confuzed. My last coupla posts are relevant here.

BUT, that's why.

Now, any ideas for good balanced brands?

Also, what would be a cost effective, but quality method of adapting from male XLR jacks to male TSR jacks in the rear of the patch bay? Is it possible to hook in a TSR jack in the back, and cut off the other connector, and cut off the end of my mic cable, and just splice the 3 wires to each other? (After all, they're both balanced, right?)

I appreciate you guys's help! I'm still planning this whole thing out, and I totally dig the fact that you do this out of your own spare time, answering questions for ignorant gearheads like me.!

-callie-