paper cup - solo acoustic

[heatmiser]

Look again at the intonation at the second part of the 'ooh' on the refrain. It sounds to my ear that it doesn't exactly work against the guitar chord.

The performance is excellent - I really like your delivery and your voice.

I'm finding the loudest peaks on the vocal a bit harsh somehow. I want them more 'rounded'. I don't have analog recording gear, but I keep imagining that if you'd done this on an analog recorder, the peaks would have got saturated/enhanced. Maybe just turn it down a bit, compress it a little bit, add a warmer or distorter effect a little bit.

I think a simple treatment on this tune's best because it's pretty innocent. You could add one or two more instruments if you wanted to. Bass would work. Flute would work. Violin or cello. One-handed piano.

You're really good at this - you should explore it.

Thanks dobro! Can I get away with saying that part is intended to create tension, or is it just wrong? I know there's some strange intervals there between the guitar and voice, but I thought it kinda worked and was sort refreshing in what is an otherwise pretty conservative melody. I think it sounds worst the 1st time through, so maybe I just missed the note by a bit?

Totally agree with you on the harshness thing. That was my biggest concern I guess production-wise.

I did think of adding stuff, but then I don't think I'd know when to stop, plus I already did a full blown version of this, so my challenge here was to do everything at once. Thanks again!

I don't think I'm the person to ask. I've tried this singer/songwriter approach before and never liked the results I got. I'd be more inclined to put two mics on the guitar and one on the vox. The vox mic would probably be a cardioid dynamic to help lessen the bleed from the guitar and give you "a little" more control over separation. But like I said, i never got anything I liked when I tried.

I think what you got here is fine as is. Balance is the only nitpick because you didn't give us anything else to critique.

Thanks Chili. Yes, I think a dynamic would maybe give me more isolation. As it is, each mic is picking up more or less equal parts of everything. Maybe I'll try that next time if I do something like this again - thanks.

 

[heatmiser]

I've tried acoustic guitar and voice at the same time in the past, but the result was never good. But if I was going to try this again, I'd try two condensers in a figure 8 pattern mounted sideways, so that the null of each was pointed at the other. Without that 'stereo' miking thing you tried, you wouldn't get the drifting vocal result.

Must google figure 8 pattern. Sounds familiar, but I can't place it - thanks!

It's a good tune. You're voice has great presence and I think the guitar level could come up a notch. I've never recorded live, or recorded an acoustic for that matter, so I can't offer any tips. As someone said though, a good song will stand on its own merits regardless of the format. This is a good song, so let's hear the heavy metal version!

Thanks so much Bulls. You guys are all being awfully kind on the singing here, which is very nice. At least I know it isn't terrible or anything.

A metal version is a great idea! That will have to wait until after the polka arrangement is finished though!

This is killer! As others have said: the song trumps the technique--when the song is good. And this song is great! But this isn't just a matter of the song trumping the technique; this is a matter of the song being completely served by the technique.

On a technical level, I agree with others that maybe the guitar could come up relative to the voice--but the beauty of it is that the voice so perfectly conveys the song, that the issue of balance becomes completely subjective. In other words, it just plain works.

I'm both impressed and jealous.

Wow. That is super nice WS, thank you! I just didn't know if I could even play a song like this. Now I know that I can make it work on some level which is very encouraging.

I'm going to have to play around with mic positioning though to change the levels, or maybe just play guitar louder and sing more quietly - I think I was kinda belting it our for some reason here. Thanks again!

Is it fair to say those who want the guitar to come up a bit hadn't heard the song before?

I'm just interested because I can acknowledge that the voice is pretty dominant, but because I was waiting for (couldn't wait for) the opening line, I didn't care that it was loud. lol.

In keeping with the live idea, the only thing I'd love to hear is some lad sitting beside you doing the harmonies.
It'd have to be delicate though.

It's possible. I'm not sure who's heard it before and who hasn't (other than some who mention it). I'm really encouraged by your feedback as you were one in particular that I was hoping would check this out - having heard your acoustic performances/recordings. I was tempted to add harmonies, but I'd need another person for that if I wanted to keep it, uh, real or whatever

 

[Steenamaroo]

It's possible. I'm not sure who's heard it before and who hasn't (other than some who mention it). I'm really encouraged by your feedback as you were one in particular that I was hoping would check this out - having heard your acoustic performances/recordings. I was tempted to add harmonies, but I'd need another person for that if I wanted to keep it, uh, real or whatever

Well, I'm looking for somewhere to live if you feel that strongly about it! lol.

 

[heatmiser]

Well, I'm looking for somewhere to live if you feel that strongly about it! lol.

There's a futon in the "studio"!

 

[heatmiser]

Ah, a nice stripped-down version of my favorite heatmiser song!

Surprisingly well-captured and I like the whole idea of it, being done all at the same time in one pass like that. Gotta say I kinda miss some of the instrumentation of the first one, but I understand why you'd want to do it this way and you picked a great (my favorite) song for it. It really comes off sparse like this. I don't really have much to say mixwise, but even if I did maybe that would be missing the point?

It's just cool that you have a favorite! Yes, I miss all the guitars and drums and harmonies and stuff. That's why I generally layer tons of shit on everything I do. I really like lush and overblown. That makes this so much more of a challenge though. Not sure how many of my other songs would translate, but maybe I'll try some traditional numbers in the future..."been all around this world" or something like that?

Ever consider turning this song into a 20 minute space jam?

First the polka, then the metal, then the jam-fest!

I would never in a billion years record a song like this so I have no suggestions or ideas or whatever.

I think it sounds fine as it is. It's raw and has feeling and it's not too pristine. Well done.

Damn. I absolutely don't want to wait one billion years to hear Junkie Whore unplugged.

Thanks for checking it out Greg. Your description is exactly what I was going for, so a success on that level at least. While harder for me in some respects (it took like 7 tries to get through the song without a complete fuck up), it certainly is quicker. This was like 1 hour of takes tracking, then 1 hour of fiddling with EQ, comp and verb. I never get anything done in 2 hours!

 

[Greg_L]

Damn. I absolutely don't want to wait one billion years to hear Junkie Whore unplugged.

If I had an acoustic that played worth a shit, I'd do it for you. The action on my acoustic is like 5 feet off the fretboard, so it's a real bitch to play well. I might give it a try anyway. That was a fun song to play.

 

[heatmiser]

the strength of a song is how it stands up raw in the flesh...and this is a great tune...individual enough to be its own separate song...great lyrics, really really dig them


As for the mix, I wouldnt have a clue about micing acoustics...I think the guitar could come up a ball hair, the vox have a couple of tiny wobbles at the same spot on the "oh" before "when you coming home" but theyre character, not flaws


nice one

Wow. You guys are being so nice on this one. I feel so validated

Yeah, I'm really hearing some sad pitchiness here and there. I think I'm straddling that line between "it adds character" and "wtf was that?", you know? I'm not a singer per se, and this process captures so much more detail for good or ill, that you're all exposed and everything. It seems like I can get away with more quirks in the context of a big mix. Thank you for giving it a listen and the nice words Keith.

I practice a lot with just my guitar, electric drummer and microphone - so if I need to I can play any of my tunes live - even if it's a stripped down version. I use 12" Monitors with a condensor mic so I don't sing really loud to avoid feedback. It's still loud enough with marshall accompanyment though I also use (closed back) headphones to monitor a lot - especially with my new pre. It is really easy to hear vocal tone and notes because the vocals through headphones is louder.

Know your tune inside out so you can think about what's for dinner while you're singing it.
Avoid sliding up to the notes. Aim straight for them.
Avoid dissonance between the chords on the guitar and the vocal notes. It's easier to hit a note if you're playing it on the guitar or a nice harmony note. When you sing it on pitch it sounds "just right".

Keep your playing as simple as possible so you don't have to think about what you are playing and take concentration off your voice. People listen more to vocals than instruments - except us music types - so concentrate on vocals.

Play the song often so you don't forget it. Use a music stand for the lyrics/chords if needed.

This is a great tune and only needs some polish on the vocals to make it really shine...

Awesome. Thanks for the ideas ido.

I monitored this on phones out of habit I guess, although I'm now wondering why? I wasn't playing along with anything, so I could've just done without, right? Maybe my pitch would be better without the phones? Somehow I don't think it's that simple. I've never had very good pitch. Although I hear small improvements over the years.

Forgot the music stand and instead put the lyrics off to one side on a futon and occasionally glanced over which caused my vocal to drift to one side...silly of me.

I gotta say I really like dissonance though if I can pull it off. I like it when it's done well by others anyway. Maybe I'm not ready for that yet.

Thanks again ido.

 

[heatmiser]

If I had an acoustic that played worth a shit, I'd do it for you. The action on my acoustic is like 5 feet off the fretboard, so it's a real bitch to play well. I might give it a try anyway. That was a fun song to play.

I love that one. Maybe my favorite. You should do it. If not, I will at some point approach you for permission to try it myself.

My acoustic guitars pretty much suck too. Horrible, stiff action - good for building up finger strength though I guess.

 

[Greg_L]

I love that one. Maybe my favorite. You should do it. If not, I will at some point approach you for permission to try it myself.

My acoustic guitars pretty much suck too. Horrible, stiff action - good for building up finger strength though I guess.

Haha, thanks. Go ahead, knock yourself out dude. I'm sure you'd do an unplugged version better than I would.

 

[robgreen]

This is fookin belter.

Aye, reet fookin belter indeed

All sounds good to me and the rawness gives it plenty of character rather than detracting. I enjoyed hearing it reinterpreted in this way a lot.

That said, I hope you don't start putting out a load of unadorned acoustic songs as I really enjoy the layers you build up. I think you approach writing/recording from the same perspective as me - as something that develops organically over a while and possibly with a greater interest in the tracking/mixing than the performance.

 

[heatmiser]

Aye, reet fookin belter indeed

All sounds good to me and the rawness gives it plenty of character rather than detracting. I enjoyed hearing it reinterpreted in this way a lot.

That said, I hope you don't start putting out a load of unadorned acoustic songs as I really enjoy the layers you build up. I think you approach writing/recording from the same perspective as me - as something that develops organically over a while and possibly with a greater interest in the tracking/mixing than the performance.

Never fear, I have no intention of hitting the open mic circuit, coffee shops, etc. This was just a test for myself and something I might like to try more of, but not on a large scale or anything.

Yes, I think our approaches are very similar. We both mentioned in another thread a while back that we don't actually play our own songs all the way through and probably couldn't/wouldn't do so live. I've been thinking about this ever since and wanted to actually try it. It's kinda fun...but a little anticlimactic when you're done tracking in like an hour!

Thanks for checking it out Rob - love the new track.

 

[Chili]

... We both mentioned in another thread a while back that we don't actually play our own songs all the way through and probably couldn't/wouldn't do so live.

I remember that thread and felt the same way for a long time. I actually worked at writing songs that I could play in front of others and I got to do so this past summer when we had a few parties on the back deck. Took quite a few beers, but it went well. Just like in a coffee house, no one paid attention to me. Okay enough about me, back to you.

 

[dobro]

Thanks dobro! Can I get away with saying that part is intended to create tension, or is it just wrong? I know there's some strange intervals there between the guitar and voice, but I thought it kinda worked and was sort refreshing in what is an otherwise pretty conservative melody. I think it sounds worst the 1st time through, so maybe I just missed the note by a bit?

Yeah, I listened again and again and now I can hear it. It's okay. But I have the same impression about the vocal being a bit loud, and now I'm thinking it might be worth listening to it with less of a tail on the verb - it might pull it into the guitar sound a bit. Great tune.

 

[jguitar_tm]

Here ya go:

paper cup by kingseesar on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

I am unfamiliar with that phrase and honestly can't tell if it's good, or...?

Dang, son. I'm loving that original version. It's so groovy. This stripped down version is cool too.

 

[heatmiser]

I remember that thread and felt the same way for a long time. I actually worked at writing songs that I could play in front of others and I got to do so this past summer when we had a few parties on the back deck. Took quite a few beers, but it went well. Just like in a coffee house, no one paid attention to me. Okay enough about me, back to you.

That is awesome. I don't think I could do that. I played in some bands in high school and stuff that played keg parties, but even that was difficult for me.

Yeah, I listened again and again and now I can hear it. It's okay. But I have the same impression about the vocal being a bit loud, and now I'm thinking it might be worth listening to it with less of a tail on the verb - it might pull it into the guitar sound a bit. Great tune.

Thanks dobro. Yes, I think the verb might be a bit much...I have the same verb sent to all 3 mics, but there's much more sent to the vocal mic which I thought might drop it back more vs. the 2 "overheads". I don't think with these 3 tracks I can do much else to change the relative levels of voice and guitar without doing some really radical, damaging EQ, so maybe I should mess aroudn with the verb.

Dang, son. I'm loving that original version. It's so groovy. This stripped down version is cool too.

Thanks so much j! The original is a lot more fun and might actually qualify as groovy which is pretty cool, so thanks. I always picture one of the Brady kids saying that word for some reason.