panning two tracks?

  • Thread starter Thread starter dobro
  • Start date Start date
Sorry I'm late........

Here's something that happened I don't understand at all, that has to do with simple panning of doubled tracks. When both of the doubled guitar tracks were panned center, the guitar sound was really loud. As I panned each of the guitar tracks further out, the level continued to drop, until the point when they were panned hard left and right, and I had to boost each of them about 6 dB just to get the guitar up to its original level. What's all that about?
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I think it's the way you have the panner set up in you recording program because I seem to rember that you can set it so that when you pan it keeps the same "power" going to the speakers as you pan (but for the life of me I can't find anything about it in the manual or in any of the dropdown menus, and I think I somehow stumbled upon it once a while ago, so I'm just going on memory here). Because when something is panned dead center it is getting it's loudness from both the speakers, and when you pan one of the speakers drops out making it half as loud. But that option (if I can ever find it) keeps the same power going to the speakers so it'll get really loud on one speaker (so I don't really recommend this as that's pretty annoying), but that's just something you'll have to try out and see if that works for you.

-tkr
 
Tekker - you're right - I found out from Syntrillium there are two panning options in Cool Edit, one of which has the effect I described.
 
"* Simultaneous vs overdubbing: somebody once compared it to the difference between painting a picture and taking a picture with a camera. The first one assembles what you want bit by bit, the second one captures what's there at the moment. Both require skill. You get a different kind of product in each case. Take your pick. "

I'd put it the other way. A painted picture more resembles live recording - it can capture motion and energy in a way hard to achieve with a photo - a photo has all the elements perfectly replicated, but looks kind of motionless and unreal - more like an overdubbed piece of music. But maybe I'm taking the whole thing too far.
 
dobro,

I too love the spontaneity of live recording. I mainly do guitar and vocal ... but I do have a partner who plays guitar ... and he always plays in an isolated room so the vocal and guitar are actually not in the same room and thus no mic spill.

Of course, it requires one more person and some headache wiring ... :P
 
If I could get my voice in one room and my guitar playing in another room at the same time, I would. I haven't mastered that being in two places at once thing yet, though. :)
 
Ehhh that wouldn't work either. Can you twist your neck around so your head faces backwords?
 
ack, like the exorcist... that would be cool. Just don't puke all over your mic's. Gotta rent that one again.
 
dobro,

I'm primarily working on electronic music, so I can only speak from 2nd hand experience and things I've read and heard.

I think you touched on one of the components missing in this discussion,
But I'm not in the best room in the world, so I might have to stick with close-miking.
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.... the room.

I worked with an engineer/producer who mostly records classical music. He's very good and has put out discs through Nonesuch, New Albion, and a couple other small but well respected labels. Depending on what and where he was recording he would use a variety of mic arrangements, as is the norm. But, for every consideration of mic placement he would also take great pains that the environment worked as well. He would move the performers around, chairs, tables, whatever. He was very into this idea of creating an asymmetrical, yet spectrally balanced sound field. He always avoided placing the performers in any kind of symmetrical arrangement with respect to the room. Even with solo performers he could create a wonderful sense of not only space, but PLACE.

Pierre Sprey is renowned for this sort of thing. He records mostly Jazz and Blues in the living room of his victorian mansion. He uses PZM's mounted on a wedge shaped baffle (X-Y variation) and has all sorts of hard and absorbent panels he moves around the room. He also happens to be quite eccentric about his equipment, but his recordings are just amazing. You really feel like you are somewhere, right there, with the players.... but not just anywhere... somewhere really f**king cool. http://www.mapleshaderecords.com/main/feedbk.html

Maybe you can look into going mobile? Find a location.... your local library, community center, courthouse, whatever.... a place that has real sonic character. Run around town with your guitar and audition places first. Reserve the space, preferably during off hours. Along with your gear bring some rugs, pillows and plywood for strategic placement.... then go at it.

barefoot
 
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Dobro:

I like the idea of the x-y mic technique only, instead of left and right, I'm thinking in terms of top and bottom. You said that your guitar mic is pointing slightly upward, right? Can you get a pleasing sound with it pointing slightly downward? And your vocal mic slightly upward? Also, are you sitting or standing when you're playing? Standing could, perhaps, put a little more space between your sound sources.

If you configure your mics for a stereo recording, you've really got to get it right in the micing stage as there's little sweetening you can do afterward. The more separation you can get between the two close-mic'd sources the less you have to worry about issues with the room. Then you've got the best of both worlds-the feel of a live take with the tinkerability of a multitrack.
 
The problem with stereo-micing (or x-y) guitar and vocal is that you got to get the relative level between the two pretty good initialy, as you will have so much bleed between tracks that it will be hard to manipulate the level much afterwards.
The trouble with close micing, is that it can be awkward - if you shift position even a little while playing, it can noticeably affect the sound.
 
lazyboy - about mic separation, I recently read an interview with Bob Clearmountain (what a cool name!), and for one session he did, he positioned the vocal mic below! the mouth pointing up the singer's nose, so to speak, at 45 degrees. Then he pointed the guitar mic downwards at a similar angle. The point here is that although there isn't as much distance between the mics this way, you get better rejection of the other sound source, and so less spill, and more happiness when it comes time to mix. I'm trying it tonight, and I'll let you know.

bdemenil - you're right on all counts. I thought that thing about shifting an inch making a noticeable difference was bullshit, until I found out myself how true it is. As for the XY thing, I'm going to close-mic tonight, but put a stereo pair out in the room somewhere. In that same Bob Clearmountain article, he talked about how he tracked drums on one take - in addition to the drum mics and the overheads, he put a cardioid in a tiled shower room at the end of the studio, with the door open. Natural reverb, which he added to that particular mix - just opened things right up, apparently.

Barefoot - I'm going to start doctoring the room a bit more than I do now. I have to work with this - I can't take my computer out to record.
 
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