Panning and reverb in early Beatles

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jmarques said:
Apparently when stereo mixers first came out the were very simple, they did not have any panning pots. Just simple switches that channel sound either hard left, hard centre or hard right.
This is true. There were some early desks that just three-position toggle swithces that were basically L, L+R, and R. I don't know if Paul McCartney's backup band (JUST KIDDING! :) ) were recorded on any of these desks, though.

Anybody get that new book yet?

G.
 
"Taste of Honey" was a very early EMI recording, when they were using two-track tape. In this time frame, the band typically recorded the backing instrumentals together as a band, "live" as it were, to one of the tracks. The other track was used for the vocals. Any overdubs involved a sound-on-sound second generation recording on one or the other tracks, so they tried to be efficient in planning everything out beforehand. The mixes were intended to be monaural. The "stereo" mixes released in the States by Capitol were horribly mangled "Duophonic" process, applied to second-generation masters sent over by EMI (a disaster to say the least!). The best pressings from this period that I have heard are the German Odeon versions, which are *true* stereo, where the vocals are panned to one side and instruments to the other.

In fact, the infamous Butcher cover for the 'Yesterday and Today' album was the Beatles' comment of disgust at Capitol's sonic mangling for their masters.
 
j-boy said:
"Taste of Honey" was a very early EMI recording, when they were using two-track tape. In this time frame, the band typically recorded the backing instrumentals together as a band, "live" as it were, to one of the tracks. The other track was used for the vocals. Any overdubs involved a sound-on-sound second generation recording on one or the other tracks, so they tried to be efficient in planning everything out beforehand. The mixes were intended to be monaural. The "stereo" mixes released in the States by Capitol were horribly mangled "Duophonic" process, applied to second-generation masters sent over by EMI (a disaster to say the least!). The best pressings from this period that I have heard are the German Odeon versions, which are *true* stereo, where the vocals are panned to one side and instruments to the other.

In fact, the infamous Butcher cover for the 'Yesterday and Today' album was the Beatles' comment of disgust at Capitol's sonic mangling for their masters.

Yes! Better to call them multitrack, even if only 2 tracks, intended for mono mixdown. It was a good use of the stereo tape machines available to Martin at that time because he at least could balance vocals with backing later.
The Capitol releases were like us buying a CD and hearing eight separate tracks through eight home speakers and being told to "do our own mix", but of course with only 2 tracks, so long as both speakers give equal weight and you are sitting reasonably centrally, it's not the end of the world. But that stereo, (and it's a true separation, not fake, -you cant simulate that sort of separation) was never intended as anything more than a primitive multitrack awaiting a mixdown.
Nothing magical "happened'" when Martin mixed them to mono except that his balancing choices were now locked in.
Also, in those days there was a changeover happening between mono vinyl and stereo vinyl. If the ME used the same master tape for both stereo and mono disc pressings, just cutting in a mono summing circuit when cutting the mono disc master, it tended to give too much prominence to the previously central stereo information over the sounds panned hard left or right. Prove it yourself by listening to a stereo CD and then hitting the mono button on your amp. Centralised vocals and other information tend to be higher now in the mix. It makes the biggest difference when listening through cans.

Martin objected to record companies not taking account of this and giving the public a mix noticeably different from what he had intended as a stereo mix (we're talking about the true stereo mixes that came later). So it's not that mono is good stereo bad, or vice versa, but that if it was mixed for mono or mixed for stereo, that should have been carried right through the signal chain.
It's not really true to call the Capitol releases "stereo mixes". They were, if anything unmixed and that was the problem.
Still I like having the chance once in a while to listen to those Beatles "stereo mixes", as you can pick out more detail than you strictly can in the mono mixes, even though it was never intended that way...if you know what I mean.

Tim
 
they intentionally did MONO and stereo also as times changed.
i think I read all the 45's (singles) were MONO... maybe until the end.

the albums came out in mono and stereo, my neighbors got some cool ones, Magical Mystery and Sgt Pepper all in Mono. They are different mixes, sometimes differrent effects, pretty noticeable to the audiophile listener.

The earlier post of the "band" on one track and the vocals on the other track was also due to eqing issues I read.

GM has one book mentioning the reason he'd put bass and drums together was the eq issues, the electric guitars together as when he adjusted and removed bass on the electric guitars you don't want ot mess up the basss guitar or kick.

anyway there was some thought given to this "seperation grouping" too.
thye did overdubbing from tape to tapes also, but like Taste of Honey, it's near a live performance in the studio.

The Rutles man, they did an entire album in 2 hours and the next one took even longer.
 
I've heard some very early Rolling Stones where the drums are pretty much all by themselves left and the rest is right.
 
jmarques said:
All the reverb/echo was done by playing two copys of a tape a slight different timing. Isn't John Lennon credit with inventing these sound effect techniques?

On this song "A Taste of Honey", it's definitely not tape echo, it's rich, long-decay reverb. Almost certainly the Abbey Road echo chamber.
 
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