Paint Choice

[cfuehrer]

KnightFly from the Sayers forum sent me here to ask for Jake-Owa. I would like to know what brand and type of paint I should get for my studio walls (drywall) and ceilings. Like latex, oil, acrylic, etc. I was told I might need a non-bridding paint for some surfaces. My live room I would like to use a flat color. The control room will be a faux type of finish. Our vocal booth we want to do in a gray granite stone look, like the one from Rustoleum.

 

[frederic]

KnightFly from the Sayers forum sent me here to ask for Jake-Owa. I would like to know what brand and type of paint I should get for my studio walls (drywall) and ceilings. Like latex, oil, acrylic, etc. I was told I might need a non-bridding paint for some surfaces. My live room I would like to use a flat color. The control room will be a faux type of finish. Our vocal booth we want to do in a gray granite stone look, like the one from Rustoleum.

I generally use Martha Stewart oil based paint.

Don't laugh, its better than dutch boy 100 times over.

If you desire a smooth surface, use a roller.

If you want a rough surface, use a stiff brush, and dab the paint on. It will leave approximately 3/8" stalagmites (or is it stalagtites? I forget) and they will survive light abrasions.

For granite stone look, Rustoleum stuff does work, but it ends up being slick as glass.

 

[Tim Brown]

Okay, you've got me:
What is a "non-bridding" paint?

I was a custom commercial painter for 7 years and never heard of this, and I worked on a lot of custom hi-end homes (90% of the homes that I did were over $500,000, and the most expensive one was a $7,000,000 home on the ocean - the guy designed golf courses.).


Rule #1. Use a quality paint.
I push Benjamin Moore for several reasons....no I don't make any money for using this product.

I've used Glidden, Dutch Boy, Pittsburg, Behr, Sherwin Williams, Porter, and a host of others. I personally prefer Benjamin Moore....it's a THICK paint, and will allow you to put on a heavy coat. Don't "cut " the paint. Some painters mix their latex paint with water to make it go farther...that's BS. It gives you a shitty texture, and it doesn't do what you're supposed to do, which is paint the walls.


Sherwin Williams paint has a heavy amount of Amonia in it, and the smell lingers aroun for awhile. Benjamin Moore's odor will be gone in a day or so.
Glidden/Porter paints tend to be thin....like water sometimes.

Behr and Pittsburg "upper" lines are good quality paints.


Sure, batter paint will cost a little more, but it IS worth it. Trust me.

Most of the "designer" paints are crap.

No matter what you do, you want a good coat of flat latex underneath....if you just put latex Eggshell, Semigloss, or gloss, on and you haven't put up Flat latex as a primer- it won't stick as well.

If it's fresh/new drywall - you want flat latex.

Rule #2. Buy QUALITY Brushes.
Don't waste your money on those cheapo disposables.

Buy a couple of Purdy or Wooster brand brushes. My personal favorites for all around use are Purdy 3" Sprigs, and 3" Boats. (These are styles of brushes....go to a paintstore that sells them, they will show you the different styles.)
Sure they cost more (between $14 and $30) but it's worth it. Think of these as the U87's of paintbrushes!

Get them to show you how to wash out the brushes, and KEEP the shuck/sleeve that they come in-once you've washed out your brush, and dried it (You can spin it in your hands...I have a "Spinner" that you put the brushes in that costs $14) put the brush back in the shuck to retain it's shape. Take care of these brushes-and they will be like luggage-you'll have the things for life.

When you paint your corners and do all of your cut in:
Once all your drywall seams are sandedif this is new work)
Go around with a paintbrush and paint all of your drywall seams, corners, etc., and let it dry.
Then do it again.
The paint you put on with a roller is a lot thicker than what you can apply with a brush.

After you roll the room with the first coat, then lightly sand the walls. then take a dry rag and wipe the walls down, then you're ready to paint the second coat.

If you sand between coats, the walls will feel like velvet.

When you roll, make sure that you "lead" with the end of the roller that actually attaches to the rolling pole - that's because you will tend to put more pressure on this end of the roller.
Watch for "gator tails"...if you lead with the open end, you are more likely to leave a little "trail" that looks just like an alligator's tail-hence the term "gator tail".

I would buy a quality nap (roller cover) in between a 1/4" and 1/2" pile...any larger than that and you start really slinging paint.

Get a snap lock pole and a wooster roller.


I hope some of this helps, if you have any questions feel free to ask, I'll be glad to answer anything tht I can.

You can get a stone kind of look buy using several coats of paint in different colors, and use different sized/kinds of sponges to apply them.

We did one place that looked like Stone walls from a castle - including "grout" lines....and it was cool looking.

So the procedure is:

1. Sand
2. Caulk the seams & wait 24 hours. If you paint over wet caulk and you'll ruin the integrity of the seal.
3. Cut in all your seams and drywall patches.
4. Prime with flat latex paint-walls and hardwoods (if you are painting them)
5.After this is dry, sand the walls (220 grit papet) and hardwoods(220 grit sanding sponge).
5.Wipe the walls and everything down with dry rags to help dust them. You can even use a broom.
6.Paint your first top coat.

Now, at this point, you have to decide:
Do you want 2 coats on your walls, or 3?( I'd go 3, and sand between the coats)
If you only want 2, you're there, and you can lightly sand your hardwoods and paint them again...that way you'll have 2 coats of

Take your time, and just remember-it's just paint.

If you don't know how to paint, look around for a local DIY center and see if they have painting classes. Don't be embarassed, there are a few tricks to painting and once you have them down, it's a breeze.



Tim

 

[Michael Jones]

Hey Tim, great tips. I agree about the quality brushes, I've had some for years. As with most things, buy cheap, buy twice.

I'm going to start painting on the exterior of my studio this weekend. All of the "raw wood" has been primed. Most of the exterior is brick but some of it is wood siding. This is the stuff that comes in 4'x8' sheets, and is "Pre-Primed". Is that good enough to just paint over it?
Also, I'm thinking of renting an "air-less" sprayer to do the job. Any tips on what to look for in those?

Thanks for the input.

 

[frederic]

Also, I'm thinking of renting an "air-less" sprayer to do the job. Any tips on what to look for in those?

Thanks for the input. [/B]

I have one of those wagner $70 airless sprayers, and for the most part, it works fine. Its much happier with thinner paint, but I was able to paint the outside of the house with oil based paint for large areas. I rolled or brushed the tighter spots.

Cleaning these things are a hassle, mine's 10 years old so maybe the design has changed, but often in the middle of a paint job it clogs up and doesn't want to unclog without disassembly, and soaking in thinner of some kind. Once it dries, I then have to run some paint through it at a piece of plywood until the consistancy is right again (5-10 seconds), then I can paint.

I'd have much preferred to use my air compressor and my air gun, but unfortunately it required 220V which I didn't have at the time. I've painted cars with it to a mirror finish, so the air gun is a nice tool. The wagner, well, does the job, but its really just a paint slinger lol.

 

[Tim Brown]

Hey Tim, great tips. I agree about the quality brushes, I've had some for years. As with most things, buy cheap, buy twice.

I'm going to start painting on the exterior of my studio this weekend. All of the "raw wood" has been primed. Most of the exterior is brick but some of it is wood siding. This is the stuff that comes in 4'x8' sheets, and is "Pre-Primed". Is that good enough to just paint over it?
Also, I'm thinking of renting an "air-less" sprayer to do the job. Any tips on what to look for in those?

Thanks for the input.

I generally don't endorse spraying an occupied home....the overspray sucks...whenever we sprayed, it was always new construction, and even then-we just used the sprayer to apply the paint-someone went behind with a roller to roll it in, otherwise the paint would not adhere to the surface as well.

Yeah, pre-primed is okay to paint over. I still like priming

I'm not sure what's availble for rent in your area but I have used Hero electric rigs and we had a Graco Titan 3500 which is a gas powered workhorse.

The key is just make sure you have a decent tip (you might want to buy this just to make sure that you get a good one - that will run you about $30 or so) and keep the bell housing clean.

The key is finding pressure tht you are comfortable with, and when you spay into a corner, aim the gun down - otherwise your spray will travel "up" the corner.

If you do decide to spray, watch your overspray! I saw a guy dust a car 100' away - the wind was carrying the spray all over the place.....that was when we decided that we wouldn't spray on repaints.

Tim

 

[cfuehrer]

I was told a non-bridging paint is use on absorbant surfaces because it will not fill them in they still allow the surface to be porous.

 

[Tim Brown]

I was told a non-bridging paint is use on absorbant surfaces because it will not fill them in they still allow the surface to be porous.

Let me ask around, and see what I can come up with for you. I personally have never heard of this but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
The guy I trained under has been a pro painter for 20 years and he was trained in Boston - he knows his painting., so I'll see if I can get ahold of him sometime today, and see what he can tell me.



Tim

 

[Alex W]

If you've spray textured your drywall do you still need to apply a latex prime coat or can you start right in with your finish coats?

Thanks,

Alex

 

[c7sus]

I like Kelly-Moore over Benjamin Moore. It's a couple bucks cheaper and seems to work just as well.

Avoid the Behrs, Lowe's, and other "generic' brands because they use a lot more clay in their formulas than the higher-end paints. You want titanium over clay for better cover.

As far as the claims of "one-coat" finishes.......... I have yet to find any brand that will suffieciently cover in a single coat. If your walls have never been painted you want to prime them first. I use Zinsser oil-based prime. If you're covering a dark-colored wall I would also suggest using an oil-based primer. You'll have a lot less bleed-through problems later.

As was said earlier, always sand between coats, and then wipe off the dust with a clean broom. Sanding scuffs the surface and gives the next coat something to adhere to. You want the dust off there so you have a clean surface.

Another thing about prepping..........

If you're working on a wall that has a lot of crappy paint or a bad knockdown on it, use a Mouse sander or similer with 60-80 grit to smooth out the bad spots. I used a small Mouse on every single wall in Riley's house to fix 30 years of careless painting and wall patching. Hand sanding just can't knock off the little points and stuff or really heavy mud/paint buildup like a power sander can. The Mouse is lightweight and has a small footprint. I used it to clean up wallpaper glue, paint ropes, and other crap that wound up stuck to the wall by the talentless jackass that painted the place previously.

When applying paint with a roller you want to put your paint in a 5-gallon bucket and use a mesh dohickey to roll off the excess. Forget about those funky plastic paint trays. They're a pain in the ass and constantly need to be refilled.

Also, if your paint sits for a while don't be afraid to take it back to where you got it and have it spun again. Paint seperates fairly quickly. You can also use a mixer with a drill motor.

Now, for the actual rolling on of the paint...........

I cringe when I watch these idiots on the do-it-yourself shows paint a big "W" on the wall and then smooth it out.

THAT IS A BIG NO-NO!!!!

Load your roller, and roll off the excess on your mesh dohickey.

Start your roller about halfway up the wall, and work the paint straight up and down. 3 or 4 passes and you should have the wall coated from top to bottom. Sometimes you can get two passes of coverage off one load of paint, other times you'll find you have to reload. ALWAYS APPLY PAINT STRAIGHT UP AND DOWN A WALL. those "W"'s will show through, especially in rooms with windows that get a lot of natural light.

When you get to the end of a short wall, say 10-12 feet, GO BACK and backroll the entire wall, taking care to smooth out all the "alligator tails", or ropes as they call them out here in the west. Use worklights or available lighting to check to finish of your surface. You don't want to let those ropes dry and then try to paint over them because they are a bitch to sand out, never sand all the way out, and show through subsequent coats of paint.

Also, KEEP A WET EDGE!

This means don't stop in the middle of a wall and come back to it later. Where the paint had dried and you overlap with wet paint that area will show. Typically, you have about 20-30 minutes depending on temperature and humidity conditions. Fuck around with the drying paint after an hour or so will just raise the paint back off the wall.

If you get hair or bugs or other shit on the wall wipe it off immediatly with your finger or a small rag, and work the area over again to smooth everything out. Again, shit stuck under a coat of paint shows like a sore thumb, and can't be sanded out without leaving signs that something went amiss there.

If you don't want paint on something MASK IT!

For spray apps, I have a 3/4 HP Wagner piston, and that sucker blows paint like there's no tomorrow! I also bought a Wagner Porta rig for about $100 and it did a great job spraying both oil primer and latex paint on Riley's popcorn ceiling. You need to use Floetrol with the small Wagners because the motor just doesn't have the mojo to push un-thinned paint. Use Penetrol for oil-based paints. It doesn't effect the color if used according to the instructions, and will give you a much more uniform finish.

Masking tape............

If you can get done in a few days the "medium" grade 3M stuff works just fine. Stay away from the generics and low-end masking tapes because they will leave adhesive residue, or rip apart when you try to remove it. If you need more than a week for a particular area spend the bread for the blue stuff. It's well worth it in that application.

Those masking machines that hold a roll of paper or plastic film are worth the money, too, IMHO. In a lot of cases the masking takes longer than the actual painting and those little paper dispensors are worth their weight in gold when you have a lot of masking to do. Use a sharp razor knife to cut it; you don't need the cheesey cutter they sell for those dispensors and they don't work very well anyway. I like to set the dispensor on the rung of a ladder and pull off 5-6 feet at a time. This is a manageable amount of paper/tape to deal with and you can do a much better masking job in this manner.

If you follow these simple steps and those outlined above you will ALWAYS get a professional-looking finish. It may seem like overkill, but it makes a huge difference. Riley's house sold in 4 days while bigger houses on her block weren't moving. The buyer said she loved the paint job, and it's what sold the house.

 

[c7sus]

If you've spray textured your drywall do you still need to apply a latex prime coat or can you start right in with your finish coats?

Thanks,

Alex

Use a latex sealer, then prime over the sealer. Drywall texture absorbs paint like a sponge. You'll use less paint in the long run.

 

[frederic]

If you've spray textured your drywall do you still need to apply a latex prime coat or can you start right in with your finish coats?

Thanks,

Alex

I only spray outside, never inside. I like my lungs functional

Cars and the outside of the house I'll do. Inside I either use a brush for textured surfaces, or a roller for smoother surfaces

 

[jake-owa]

Damn, found this one too late.

Everything Tim said is great, good advice.

Don't listen to C7 however...he's unemployed for good reason.

For a studio I would just be sure to use flat paint to impart the least sonic character. Rolling is the best way to get a mild texture. On new drywall they make this stuff called "First Coat" that is like a really thin drywall mud/pva primer. Apply a thick coat by sprayer or roller to soften the walls reflective properties a bit.

Fredric....Martha Stewart? Anyone who buys that paint is on my ignore list automaticly....bye.

Benjamin Moore's line of interior flat paints are all good so are Sherwin William's. The brand is not a huge issue though, just go with flat.

I wish I could help you with the faux finish, that's my specialty.
If you have any questions I'll be around for a few hours.

 

[c7sus]

Jake, the main reason you're employed is because you donate 4 hours a day to the contractor.

If you had a set you'd work 8 for 8 and go home...........

 

[Michael Jones]

...I wish I could help you with the faux finish, that's my specialty.
If you have any questions I'll be around for a few hours.

Oh dude!
When the time comes, we need to talk.
I love faux finishes!

I did one in my current studio... looks like.... leather. Very cool.
I used a "rag rolling" technique.
First painted the wall in regular fashion with a lighter color.
Then I used a darker color thined with glaze.
Rolled that onto the wall with a rag.
It looks awesome! I'll NEVER go back to one color walls!

Its a pain in the ass though because you basically have to paint the room twice.

You can kind of see it here; (behind my ugly mug):

The picture doesn't really do it justice though... but you get the idea.

 

[jake-owa]

If you've spray textured your drywall do you still need to apply a latex prime coat or can you start right in with your finish coats?

Thanks,

Alex

Yes, you still need to prime. Use a watery PVA type primer to seal the drywall. "First Coat" is kind of a smoother sealer that can be used in place of PVA.

 

[jake-owa]

Oh dude!
When the time comes, we need to talk.
I love faux finishes!

I did one in my current studio... looks like.... leather. Very cool.
I used a "rag rolling" technique.
First painted the wall in regular fashion with a lighter color.
Then I used a darker color thined with glaze.
Rolled that onto the wall with a rag.
It looks awesome! I'll NEVER go back to one color walls!

Its a pain in the ass though because you basically have to paint the room twice.

You can kind of see it here; (behind my ugly mug):

The picture doesn't really do it justice though... but you get the idea.

Cool man, looks great! I would say it's a lot harder than just painting twice. Sounds like you have the theory down. If you ever need ideas for unusual finish types I'll be right here...or nearby.

 

[jake-owa]

I only spray outside, never inside. I like my lungs functional

Cars and the outside of the house I'll do. Inside I either use a brush for textured surfaces, or a roller for smoother surfaces

Ever hear of a respirator?

 

[jake-owa]

I've never heard of a non-bridging paint. I am still under the impression after 15+ years of painting that all paint will fill pores and bridge gaps to some extent.
Use latex or acrylic for everything drywall, oil (alkyd) fast dry primer and your choice of semigloss paint for trim.
For texture rent a compressor and hopper gun. Use topping compound thinned with 10-20% water and be sure to use a high power paddle drill to mix it to a very smooth consistency before application.

Masking is your friend. It's fine to spray inside just booth off the areas you will be working in. Use plastic sheeting, paper and dropcloths to cover everything and be sure to rub tape edges very carefully to prevent paint from bleeding onto your masked surfaces.

Always use a respirator when spraying or using alkyd paints. Don't get too crazy about the latex 'fumes' though, it's the particles you have to avoid.

 

[jake-owa]

Now, for the actual rolling on of the paint...........

I cringe when I watch these idiots on the do-it-yourself shows paint a big "W" on the wall and then smooth it out.

THAT IS A BIG NO-NO!!!!

Load your roller, and roll off the excess on your mesh dohickey.

Start your roller about halfway up the wall, and work the paint straight up and down. 3 or 4 passes and you should have the wall coated from top to bottom. Sometimes you can get two passes of coverage off one load of paint, other times you'll find you have to reload. ALWAYS APPLY PAINT STRAIGHT UP AND DOWN A WALL. those "W"'s will show through, especially in rooms with windows that get a lot of natural light.

Wow, you are way off. There's nothing wrong with the W method. The main thing to remember is to backroll with a dry roller. I usually start with a big wet W and roll it out on a few (five or six) linear feet of wall. I roll till it's covered and do a good backroll. The backroll technique will make all the difference in the world. Are you ready for the trick?
You backroll with a fairly dry roller by making the frame of the roller lead you. Apply a twisting motion to create a slight line of paint on the side of the roller in the direction you are rolling in. That way you don't leave a line behind you but it always leads you.

Got it?

This is not a big concern with flat paint, it is very forgiving.