P.A. Speaker Differences

G

GmanJeff

New member
New P.A. buyer has a few questions - hope you experts out there can help out with some insights!

Classic rock band getting it together enough to start playing out once in a while, very part-time (rehearse together twice a month; hope to play out maybe once every couple of months in the future); time to get a basic P.A. (powered mixer, 2 mains, 2 monitors). We anticipate small venues only, and plan only to have male vox going through the P.A. Would appreciate views about the relative sonic merits of 10" woofer-eqipped P.A. speakers vs. 12"s or 15"s. We have the same question for monitors - are smaller ones from a given brand likely to sound pretty much the same, but maybe just not play as loudly or be as well suited to running full instrumentation through them? The smaller size and weight of 10"s are appealling, although smaller speakers seem generally to be 1 to 3 db less efficient than comparable 15"s; is that a significant difference? We'll probably drive the mains with 300 watts each or so.

We're trying to keep the cost down until we know whether the band will last a while, and are considering speakers from brands like Peavey and Carvin. We're assuming that they're a worthwhile quality step up from the even more inexpensive speakers from Kustom and Nady? Not sure what to make of Behringer's speakers, which are priced similarly to low-end Peavy, and to Carvin. Behringer's 400 watt/side box mixer is appealingly inexpensive, but the brand's reputation for durability/quality is a little worrisome, so at this point we're leaning towards the Carvin PA800 series with 3 333 watt amps. Any user opinions on that product would also be welcome! We could go for the 600 watt/side Mackie or Peavy box mixers, but at this stage are not sure they're worth the significant extra cost over the lower powered comptetition. We figure that we can always upgrade later with a separate power amp for either mains or monitors; isn't it generally possible to integrate a separate amp into the circuitry of a box mixer for that purpose?
 
For a moble rig you should look at doing with self powered speakers with a DBX driverack. I do some equipment rental on the side and I've found that sel-powered cuts you setup time in half and preforms just as god with less hassel.

Here is an example setup that I have for rent -

2X ISP V-MAX12 (12" w/1.5" 400watts selfpowred)
1X ISP V-MAXS18 (18" 600watts selfpowered sub)
1X DBX Driverack PA
1X DBX dual 15 band Eq for monitors
4X Wharfedale EVP12-PM monitors.

http://www.isptechnologies.com/proaudiopage.htm

http://www.isptechnologies.com/georgia.htm (Professional Sound is me if you want to call me)

For smaller venues and just starting out I'd go with a 12" for the mains, whit at least a single 18" sub and 12" floor monitors.
 
Thanks, David. Seems like probably a little more expensive route than we want to take initially. We're doing this for fun only, and were hoping to keep the up-front cost to below maybe $1200-$1300 all together ($500-$600 for a box mixer; $170 or less/ea for mains and monitors, plus speaker stands and cables). Just enough to get us in front of an audience once in a while and still have audible vocals without sounding totally lousy (due to equipment deficiencies; we realize the fundamental quality of the vocals themselves is up to us!). We're playing at fairly low volumes in rehearsal, and anticipate small clubs where high volumes won't be welcomed. My thought is to create something scalable - so that in the future, if justified, we could add a separate power amp, and maybe a sub, to get more volume without necessarily discarding the initial equipment we purchase. But, that aproach assumes that the initial equipment provides reasonable sound quality to begin with - otherwise,we'd just have louder garbage!
 
Peavey is kinda like a Toyota Corolla: you wish the damn thing would break so you could buy a nicer car, but it just refuses to die. Somehow I suspect Behri is more like Hyundai or Kia . . . quality has been suspect, but has it improved? Do you feel lucky? Nady must be like Yugo :eek:

Seriously, I've used various Peavey PA stuff for years, and it is durable if unexciting.

I use 12" monitors, but I'd guess 10" would work fine, and they'd be smaller & lighter. Hell 8" would probably work fine. I low pass monitors at 100Hz, so I'm not sure what benefit you get with 15". But some people are really strange about monitors, it's like they want them to sound like an audiophile stereo or something. Dude, it's just so you can hear cues. Just trust the soundguy to make the mains sound good and don't worry about it.
 
GmanJeff said:
New P.A. buyer has a few questions - hope you experts out there can help out with some insights!

Classic rock band getting it together enough to start playing out once in a while, very part-time (rehearse together twice a month; hope to play out maybe once every couple of months in the future); time to get a basic P.A. (powered mixer, 2 mains, 2 monitors). We anticipate small venues only, and plan only to have male vox going through the P.A. Would appreciate views about the relative sonic merits of 10" woofer-eqipped P.A. speakers vs. 12"s or 15"s. We have the same question for monitors - are smaller ones from a given brand likely to sound pretty much the same, but maybe just not play as loudly or be as well suited to running full instrumentation through them? The smaller size and weight of 10"s are appealling, although smaller speakers seem generally to be 1 to 3 db less efficient than comparable 15"s; is that a significant difference? We'll probably drive the mains with 300 watts each or so.
Click to expand...

If you are doing rock, I'd probably go with at least a 12", as they will generally be able to handle more power than a 10", especially in your budget range. If you really only want to spend $200/box, you might even want to go with a 15", for power handling reasons. A 12" will generally give you better vocal sound from a budget box, but may not handle enough power for your needs.

A 15" is a good choice if you aren't going to have subs, as they go lower usually. But some vocal clarity will be lost, most likely.

The big deal with efficiency is this: Less efficient boxes need more power to get as loud. A 97 db efficient box will need twice as much power to get as loud as a 100db efiicient box. That can make a huge difference in terms of how much power you need.
For monitors, a 12" is fine for everything except sources with a lot of low-end, like bass and kick, etc.


GmanJeff said:
We're trying to keep the cost down until we know whether the band will last a while, and are considering speakers from brands like Peavey and Carvin. We're assuming that they're a worthwhile quality step up from the even more inexpensive speakers from Kustom and Nady? Not sure what to make of Behringer's speakers, which are priced similarly to low-end Peavy, and to Carvin. Behringer's 400 watt/side box mixer is appealingly inexpensive, but the brand's reputation for durability/quality is a little worrisome, so at this point we're leaning towards the Carvin PA800 series with 3 333 watt amps. Any user opinions on that product would also be welcome! We could go for the 600 watt/side Mackie or Peavy box mixers, but at this stage are not sure they're worth the significant extra cost over the lower powered comptetition. We figure that we can always upgrade later with a separate power amp for either mains or monitors; isn't it generally possible to integrate a separate amp into the circuitry of a box mixer for that purpose?
Click to expand...

If resale is a possible concern, I'd stick with Peavey over Carvin, and would consider used gear in any case, given your budget. You will be able to get a nicer set of mains if you get used gear, and they will already have taken that first big hit in terms of value. Nady and Kustom just plain suck. Avoid avoid avoid.

As far as Behringer, I would skip their speakers- they are made of MDF, not plywood. This makes them cheap, but very heavy. MDF is also more susceptible to damage from impacts. As it has no give, it shatters at the point of impact. The powered mixers, on the other hand, have decent reviews. I have not used one myself, however.

I'd up the budget on your mains, if I were you. For a bit more money you could get a huge jump in quality and durability.

For Peavey, look at new TLS series, or a used set of SP-5s. Also used JBL TR series, or Eon 1500.

TLS2- $219 each, new.
SP5- $350 new, great deal used

Some other candidates:
Yamaha S115V- $350 new
JBL JRX series
Mackie C300 $429 new
JBL Eon non-powered $350 new- Good box, very light.
JBL MPro 212 $379 new- good sounding 12"
JBL MPro 412 $579-the best sounding 12" on the market under $1000. At $579, they are a steal.

I know these are out of your budget, but will be speakers you can actually use, not a pile of ass in a box.

Yes, generally you can integrate another power amp into a powered mixer.
 
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