Owens Corning ruining my life?

[mikeeb]

Hey guys. After taking advice from a member on this board I strayed away from creating my studio in this completely insulated area. I was told it was not good to have these insulated acoustic panels all around the walls with no sheet rock. It is also on the ceilings and the floor has carpet. There is no wood or wall in this basement but these panels. So we decided to set up shop in another basement. This one had bare white sheetrocked walls. We hung up home made insulated sheets, used a spare matress, and used a few acoustic tiles we found. We also bought a bunch of Super Tuff -R and placed it around the vocal booth to keep noise out and deaden it. Now, months later, the drummer asked me why we did not do it in his basement, He says he looked up his walls that were just put up in his new basement, and they are Owens Corning. He says he looked it up and it would be really great. However, I was led to believe that it is not good to have this full room surrounded by panels because it would bounce off bad waves and hurt the overall recording for numerous reasons. So now I am left with a shitty decision. Do I move everything from this makeshift, low quality studio with shower rods holding up blankets and spare super tuff- r stuff to a new basement that is incapsulated with the Owens Cornering acoustic walls? You tell me what you think. Is this owens stuff really that good and worth moving everything?

 

[darrin_h2000]

You might just break it up with difusers every other peice.

 

[mshilarious]

Difficult to answer without very specific details on each room. Basically, a room that is deadened with thin panels everywhere could still sound muddy due to bass frequencies still bouncing around. A completely dead room, including bass frequencies, isn't as bad as an untreated room, but it's not ideal either. Chances are these rooms aren't completely dead though. You can measure the room's response using some simple tools.

I am moving this thread to Studio Building where you will get more expert attention.

 

[mikeeb]

Thank you. I would feel truely awful after all the time my mother has spent helping me sew these thick insulated blankets and stuff. I mean, I have heard that OC703 is awesome stuff, and his room is surrounded by it. Is there any way that I can take a bare room with normal basement sheet rock walls and make or buy some stuff so we do not have to move the studio. All I want is it to be almost as good as the one with OC703 surrounding it.

 

[Chili]

I'm not quite sure what you're asking... but if you're asking if you should hang 703 on your walls (sheetrock, gyp board, drywall, whatever we want to call it), the answer is yes. It works well, easy to make panels and is fairly cheap for what they do.

Here's a thread where I posted some pics of how I hung my panels. Go about halfway down the thread....

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=279814

Hopefully, this is what you're asking.

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

He says he looked up his walls that were just put up in his new basement, and they are Owens Corning.

Can you explain a bit more?
First off, I've never heard of Owens Corning walls.

Ok, lets loook at what he says. First off, he says "he looked "up" his walls...".
Does this mean he got on his knees and looked "up" into a stud cavity or something? Or he stood there and looked "up" at the top of his walls? Or he looked up "walls" on the internet?(I don't know what that would tell him though other than...yea...he has walls). And next...

He says.."that were just put up in his new basement,"....

Ok, he has a NEW basement, Does this mean he lived in an existing house that they lifted up and built a basement, or he moved into a new HOUSE with a basement, or someone just FINISHED insulating the EXTERIOR walls of an EXISTING basement, or they DRYWALLED an existing basement? And THEN, FRAMED some new OWENS CORNING interior PARTITION walls? Hmmm, I've never heard of Owens Corning walls, UNLESS, he looked "up"(why "up" as you can look directly in front of you and see a wall)...and then saw SOMETHING that said "Owens Corning"...right? Was this stamped on a STUD? Or on INSULATION? Or on DRYWALL? I don't get it.

If you can explain what he means, I'd offer some advice. Otherwise his statement makes no sense to me.

 

[Farview]

I think he is talking about the Owens Corning wall systems. http://franchising.owenscorning.com/bfs/

I'm pretty sure that he meant that the drummer looked up the specs and thought it would work.

These things are designed to keep some noise from getting in or out of the space, but I doubt they will be useful acoustic treatment. For that matter, I doubt they will hold in the noise of a live drummer.

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Hmmmm, you may be right. Never seen this system before. Looking at the picture, it does look like 4" 703 between some kind of plastic or other material which is used in place of drywall. The page really doesn't tell the actual material specs on it. I'll have to spend some time researching this. Maybe, it the covering panels are removable, there is a way to use the 703 as is. Although, there is much to learn about it. Having no studs might make using this as "treatment" impossible. But still, I Chili to fill in the blanks. Like, what is the exterior walls made of? Concrete? Wood framing and drywall? etc etc.

fitZ

 

[darrin_h2000]

You could probubly make gobos out of it...I might have seen a commercial one time looked reasonable.

 

[mikeeb]

Hey guys. From what he told me, he had this owens corning stuff put into his basement instead of the regular walls like I have in my basement. This has caused a huge debate between us. If you have ever looked up owens corning basement systems that is what he has. If anyone else has ANY input, right or wrong, please let me know. Thanks guys.
-Mikee

Edit: The link posted above is the EXact thing he has in his basement. If that helps anyone.

 

[darrin_h2000]

Hey guys. From what he told me, he had this owens corning stuff put into his basement instead of the regular walls like I have in my basement. This has caused a huge debate between us. If you have ever looked up owens corning basement systems that is what he has. If anyone else has ANY input, right or wrong, please let me know. Thanks guys.
-Mikee

Edit: The link posted above is the EXact thing he has in his basement. If that helps anyone.

Id just listen to what the recorder picks up while you practice...who knows yoou might like it.

 

[mikeeb]

True. Well If its not the most amazing thing ever, its not worth redoing the whole studio. im looking to get some better stuff than that shitty super tuff r I have. Anyone have an suggestions I could spend my summer pay check on. I am only 16 so I dont have much, but Im willing throw what is necessary to make this happen. Let me know guys. Thanks, i truely appreciate it.

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

I was told it was not good to have these insulated acoustic panels all around the walls with no sheet rock.

Actually, that depends on a few things. Yes, a room that has no sheetrock, yet has the stud cavities filled with batt insulation can suck out the high frequencies of the room, while almost doing nothing for low frequencies. But there is a solution to this, called "slat"s. Although I won't go into it because you've already moved:

So we decided to set up shop in another basement. This one had bare white sheetrocked walls. We hung up home made insulated sheets, used a spare matress, and used a few acoustic tiles we found.

What are these "insulated sheets" you speak of?

We also bought a bunch of Super Tuff -R and placed it around the vocal booth to keep noise out and deaden it.

I'm sorry to tell you, but the Super Tuff-R is absolutely useless for acoustical treatment in a room. This is why...

highinsulating-
value, closed-cell
polyisocyanurate foam core
sandwiched between a choice
of durable exterior facers.

This is extracted from here:
http://www.dow.com/PublishedLiterat...foam/pdfs/noreg/179-07932.pdf&fromPage=GetDoc
Notice it says NOTHING about acoustical properties.

This is a CLOSED CELL rigid foam, which has exceptional THERMAL qualitys yet does NOTHING for sound absorption let alone sound transmission. You might as well throw them away.

So, back to the problem. Decisions. If you are trying to decide on moving to this "proposed" room based on what your drummer thinks these Owens Corning panels will do for sound absorption...FORGET IT! If you are happy with the sound you get on your recordings in your existing room...then you DON"T HAVE A PROBLEM. Period.
fitZ

 

[mikeeb]

Thanks man. Well do u know of any good acoustical foam I can buy to deaden the room but also make it sound sweeter or better? I have money and am willing to go out and buy some good stuff. The super tuff R we used to deaden the room, not to help it acoustically. But now im greedy and want both acoustical greatness, and for the room to be silent instead of very loud (Its a half wall room, not a closed door room). Lets just say im starting from scratch and have a low key budget. What can I buy for low price that you would actually use yourself?

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Well do u know of any good acoustical foam I can buy to deaden the room but also make it sound sweeter or better?

My personal opinion is the foam stuff does not perform as well as rigid fiberglass(Owens Corning 703 or equal, such as Knauf. I bought the Knauf product myself. It is exactly the same thing. In fact, I was able to purchase 4'x10' panels 4" thick, which is IMPOSSIBLE to find in 703. Look for a supplier close to you here.
http://www.spi-co.com/index.html

The super tuff R we used to deaden the room, not to help it acoustically.

Same thing. When you absorb, you are "deadening" the acoustics of the room in certain frequency bands, depending on how much treatment is used and how thick, and where it is placed. The point is to use it in your control room to remove reflections from your engineering position that color the direct sound from your monitors. In a small "live" studio, it is used to attenuate modal resonance(standing waves) between parallel surfaces, absorb low frequency buildup in the corners and comb filtering from occuring when mics are used.

But now im greedy and want both acoustical greatness, and for the room to be silent instead of very loud (Its a half wall room, not a closed door room).

Hmmm, silent instead of very loud? Are you talking about "soundproofing"....ie...keeping environmental noise from entering the recording space as well as keep LOUD music from transmitting to the other rooms in the house as well as from the neighbors? If so, "treatment" does absolutely nothing for sound transmission through the building assemblies. All it does is absorb sound in the room itself. Sound TRANSMISSION is an entirely different animal, and requires a whole different set of solutions...namely...mass and lots of it, sealing all air leaks, and flanking paths such as ductwork, decoupling when required, and many other techniques/materials. If this is what you are talking about, don't confuse foam/fiberglass treatment with "soundproofing"...they are entirely two different concepts.
fitz

 

[mikeeb]

True. I mean I have like a 1000 dollar budget which is not great but decent. I do not want to have to make anything though. It seems like if i buy that Knauf board or even 703 I am going to have to put together something which I am not savy at. The guy at GC told me that with my budget he would sell me some basic bass traps for 35 ea and a bunch of 2'X4' 2'' thick auralex foam pads for 27 ea. I do not know if this is a good deal but it just seems so easy compared to making stuff. He said all I have to do is spray the auralex and then put it on my walls. However, if I am spending this much money I do want a very nice sound. The following is an awful drawn picture by yours truly. The room has a halfwall that we will be filling with sheetrock. For now, curtains with a curtain rod on both sides have been hung up to stop some noise from ruining the noise. The end with the computer has the computer pushed against the wall with curtains on both sides and behind super tuff R. This gives a very small separate control room. On the opposite side of the super tuff R is the Vocal booth. This has curtains on both ends with a mattress against the wall and supertuff directly behind. The red in the picture is the curtains that we sewn using a bunch of different materials and are pretty thick. The last section is the drum room which is the rest of the room and completely empty besides the drums. It is just a big blank room. So, any help for layouts would be appreciated and any ideas will be used. If real pictures are needed, I will have to do it.
Edit: I just realized in the picture that the drums are pushed much more in the right corner. They are cornered in that right corner. However, the room is drawn large in my sketch so just imaging the word drums starting 2 inches before the D and ending right by the right corner. It should really be this.

| D R U M S |
--

Instead of

| D R U M S |
---

 

[Supercreep]

It's easy enough to add some sparkle back into a room. It's much harder to deal with the LF than the HF.

For this reason, I think one can't have too many bass traps.

 

[mikeeb]

It's easy enough to add some sparkle back into a room. It's much harder to deal with the LF than the HF.

For this reason, I think one can't have too many bass traps.

OK so I def need bass traps. What else based off the layout of my basement. I have a carpet flooring and sheetrock ceilings.

 

[bdenton]

First, pay a visit to http://www.auralex.com/

They have a great deal of information about soundproofing in general, along with specific information about how to use their products.

Second, you are sixteen and you are about to drop $1,000 to create a recording studio in somebody else's house.

I'm a drummer, and I was in about 5 different bands between the time I was 16 and the time I was 18. It's just the nature of the game that bands frequently break up.

I don't know about you, but to me $1,000.00 is a fairly nice chunk of change. If it were me, I would try to spend it to fix up my own basement.

Then, even if the band breaks up, you've still got a studio...

 

[mikeeb]

First, pay a visit to http://www.auralex.com/

They have a great deal of information about soundproofing in general, along with specific information about how to use their products.

Second, you are sixteen and you are about to drop $1,000 to create a recording studio in somebody else's house.

I'm a drummer, and I was in about 5 different bands between the time I was 16 and the time I was 18. It's just the nature of the game that bands frequently break up.

I don't know about you, but to me $1,000.00 is a fairly nice chunk of change. If it were me, I would try to spend it to fix up my own basement.

Then, even if the band breaks up, you've still got a studio...

Ok but this would be in my basement anyways.