Owens Corning 703 bull poop??

[mixmkr]

First off, I'll say I haven't treated the rest of my room...only with the the trap behind the mixer and the two corner bass traps. Both traps are 4" OC 703, and the dimensions are 2' x 8' for the bass traps and 4' x 4' for the wall absorber.

On the response test (thank you Ethan W.) you can see the top wavefore is NO treatment. The bottom waveform is with the 3 new traps.

It looks to me like the 703 pretty much peaked out my 200Htz area out of bounds, and did almost nothing to the rest of the freq range (50- 300 Htz).

I will say it SOUNDS different. Too early for solid opinions, but good sounding mixes sound better, bad stuff sounds even worse. That part is encouraging, but strange at the same time. If I was looking at the graphs, I'd say the 703 is on its' way to really screwing things up.

I'm certainly no expert, and there is no "science" to where I put the traps, except I was under the impression the corners were good for the bass traps.

I AINT GIVING UP.... I will continue with the rest of my traps, and experiment so more.
But this IS a surprise.

btw, I'll post on the other thread still on how I'm making these room "disrupters" !!

 

[mixmkr]

Thinking more about this, my UNTREATED side walls are parallel and about 15 1/2 ft apart. Things may be REALLY bouncing between them now, for the worse, as the front to back may be now much better, but skewed by the side walls ....make sense? HOPE SO and I hope that IS the solution.

4-5 more traps on the sides walls and especially at 1st reflection.

So... this forum with moderators... do we still get hugs I'll take one... tank chew.

 

[CoolCat]

when I put up bass traps it increased the bass in the other room...or so I was told by the others living here.

it definitely made the room echoing-handclaps disappear which was an obvious improvement.

I think your problem is your monitors..you need flat panels...

seriously, looks frkn great cosmetically, post some more graphs when you get time.

I wonder what the graph would be of each trap indiviually added, or alone?

 

[drossfile]

naturally the absorption coefficient is going to increase as the frequency increases--that's just the nature of the beast.

for freqs below 200 Hz, you're fighting an uphill battle. 703 is relatively good at it, and 6" will get you there a little better than 4", but generally speaking, any absorption material is gonna eat up more highs than lows--that's just how sound waves operate.

check this out for a coefficient chart:

http://bobgolds.com/AbsorptionCoefficients.htm

the reason corners are a good place for traps is that's where the lower freqs really build up and therefore are a prime place to absorb them. putting them elsewhere would be like fishing in the middle of a forest.

well, not quite, but you get my point.

 

[mixmkr]

I understand the absorbtion will eat the highs, to the point of making the bass appear more prominant. However that 6+ dB increment at 200-300Htz aint gonna cut it. And...what happened to 150Htz and below? To me very little. It appears my 2nd test was slightly louder, but I'm using a RatShack meter, took a photo of settings, etc... trying to keep things as close a possible.


I'm gonna predict the additional side wall treatings will help immensly. Otherwise, I have an appointment with "Myth Busters" on TV.

 

[mixmkr]

I wonder what the graph would be of each trap indiviually added, or alone?

I was going to do that, but got impatient and wanted to just get the 3 of them up. The one over the mixer was IMPOSSIBLE to hang...mainly because it was SO close to the ceiling. There was no lifting up and then coming "down" on the holders on the wall. It was tough, probably took 1/2 hr.to hang it (moving equipment, etc) and ALOT of sweat. It was HEAVY

thanks for the nice comment on the cosmetics. It does look nice. The rest of them should help the "look" too... That's more important than the music anyrate...eh?

Problem is I have one of those $100 cameras, and I don't know how to get one of those "cool" studio shots with the groovy lighting and all. ;-)

 

[Freudian Slip]

I would think dismounting your speakers from the wall would help your low end at least some. Looks like a pretty big passive radiator to me.


F.S.

 

[drossfile]

I understand the absorbtion will eat the highs, to the point of making the bass appear more prominant. However that 6+ dB increment at 200-300Htz aint gonna cut it. And...what happened to 150Htz and below? To me very little. It appears my 2nd test was slightly louder, but I'm using a RatShack meter, took a photo of settings, etc... trying to keep things as close a possible.


I'm gonna predict the additional side wall treatings will help immensly. Otherwise, I have an appointment with "Myth Busters" on TV.

all i can tell you is, the 703 treatment is no joke. the difference it's made in my live and recorded sound, as well as accuracy in mixing is IMMENSE, all for the better. don't get too wrapped up in electronic renditions of results--rely on your ears to tell the story.

that being said, more is always better. just keep putting more traps in until you've run out of room, especially in a mixing environment. there are very few things in the recording world where more=better, but treatment is the one!!!!

 

[mixmkr]

I would think dismounting your speakers from the wall would help your low end at least some. Looks like a pretty big passive radiator to me.


F.S.

No I have forced heat and air

Seriously....Do you really think the wall is vibrating because of that? ...enough to boost up the low? That's kinda suprising because now, 2/3 of that wall is now covered with fiberglass.

Honestly, my mix room seems to lack low end...it SOUNDS that way too. Upper/low and low/mid is fine. Might be the old speaker crossover points, monitor amp... anything.

 

[Freudian Slip]

No I have forced heat and air

Seriously....Do you really think the wall is vibrating because of that? ...enough to boost up the low?

Honestly, my mix room seems to lack low end...check the graph and it SOUNDS that way too. Upper/low and low/mid is fine. Might be the old speaker crossover points, monitor amp... anything. Harvey Gerst ought to know more about these speakers (JBL 4311) than anyone.

Well how much it is and at what frequencies I don't know, but it has to have some effect. You have a direct link to what is likely a fairly resonant surface.

I could be wrong. It just seems likely.

F.S.

 

[LP2006]

No I have forced heat and air

Seriously....Do you really think the wall is vibrating because of that? ...enough to boost up the low? That's kinda suprising because now, 2/3 of that wall is now covered with fiberglass.

Honestly, my mix room seems to lack low end...it SOUNDS that way too. Upper/low and low/mid is fine. Might be the old speaker crossover points, monitor amp... anything.

Play a few low frequency sine tones (one at a time) and walk around your room. Take note of where the null and peak points of the standing waves are. It looks like you have three parallel surfaces in that room. You may have some nulls at your mix position for particular low frequencies, which makes it sound like you're lacking low frequency response.

Also, keep in mind that you don't get a whole lot of energy below 80hz without a sub or larger speakers.

Finally, I noticed you have your monitors down-firing. Your desk is a hard surface. You are going to have pronounced 1st order reflections off your desk. These reflections will reach your ears faster, and traveling a shorter distance than the reflections off your walls. Consider moving your speakers so that they are firing more straight on.

 

[pandamonk]

First off, I'll say I haven't treated the rest of my room...only with the the trap behind the mixer and the two corner bass traps. Both traps are 4" OC 703, and the dimensions are 2' x 8' for the bass traps and 4' x 4' for the wall absorber.

On the response test (thank you Ethan W.) you can see the top wavefore is NO treatment. The bottom waveform is with the 3 new traps.

It looks to me like the 703 pretty much peaked out my 200Htz area out of bounds, and did almost nothing to the rest of the freq range (50- 300 Htz).

I will say it SOUNDS different. Too early for solid opinions, but good sounding mixes sound better, bad stuff sounds even worse. That part is encouraging, but strange at the same time. If I was looking at the graphs, I'd say the 703 is on its' way to really screwing things up.

I'm certainly no expert, and there is no "science" to where I put the traps, except I was under the impression the corners were good for the bass traps.

I AINT GIVING UP.... I will continue with the rest of my traps, and experiment so more.
But this IS a surprise.

btw, I'll post on the other thread still on how I'm making these room "disrupters" !!

It's louder at all frequencies in the second. Are you sure you kept every setting exactly the same in both recordings and didn't move the mic at all?!

 

[pandamonk]

I would think dismounting your speakers from the wall would help your low end at least some. Looks like a pretty big passive radiator to me.


F.S.

I completely agree. Either that or add some isolation between the speakers and wall, whatever way you can. Maybe auralex mopads.

 

[pandamonk]

No I have forced heat and air

Seriously....Do you really think the wall is vibrating because of that? ...enough to boost up the low? That's kinda suprising because now, 2/3 of that wall is now covered with fiberglass.

Honestly, my mix room seems to lack low end...it SOUNDS that way too. Upper/low and low/mid is fine. Might be the old speaker crossover points, monitor amp... anything.

It definitely is vibrating the wall. This can act to increase, or even decrease the low-end.

 

[pandamonk]

Play a few low frequency sine tones (one at a time) and walk around your room. Take note of where the null and peak points of the standing waves are. It looks like you have three parallel surfaces in that room. You may have some nulls at your mix position for particular low frequencies, which makes it sound like you're lacking low frequency response.

Also, keep in mind that you don't get a whole lot of energy below 80hz without a sub or larger speakers.

Finally, I noticed you have your monitors down-firing. Your desk is a hard surface. You are going to have pronounced 1st order reflections off your desk. These reflections will reach your ears faster, and traveling a shorter distance than the reflections off your walls. Consider moving your speakers so that they are firing more straight on.

Good suggestions.

 

[pandamonk]

If you did everything correctly, it could just be that the acoustics were causing a big null in the low-end and the bass traps made the low-end louder.

 

[Farview]

The thing is that you are only 1/4 to 1/2 way done treating the room. By treating only the front, you have just changed the problems of the room and possibly moved them around. It won't be right until you are done.

It's not a matter of one bass trap fixing it a little, then adding another doubles the quality of the fix, then adding another, etc... Moving the traps that you have to the back of the room will make the room sound completely different than it does now. You have to put them all up in order for itto work out the way it is supposed to.

 

[Freudian Slip]

I would personally get further back from the 4311's too. You said you feel like your lacking low end. It may not be developing enough before it reaches you.
That's a pretty close listening position for 12's. Bass is funny that way. I have 18 inch subs for live. You can hear them better at 50 yards than right in front of them. They also become loud when the waves hit a good sounding board. That's why I question the wall mount.

Now you may have killed alot of reverb in your room, but you have left the wall around where the speakers are mounted exposed. That could be messing with you right there.

If you get the room fully treated you will likely feel as if you have no bass for a while. I think we often mistake resonance and standing waves for bass response. When I switched to my asp8's from my bx8's it seemed less bassy. Fact is that it was the clarity of the bass and lack of resonance that took some getting used to. I was used to things getting ugly when you fed too much 40 to 50hz in. Now it was as clear as a bell and I had to tune my ears to it. I no longer get a gross sounding warning from my speakers when I might be over bassing my mix. It's a crutch I had used and never even knew it.

F.S.

 

[mixmkr]

The thing is that you are only 1/4 to 1/2 way done treating the room. By treating only the front, you have just changed the problems of the room and possibly moved them around. It won't be right until you are done.

It's not a matter of one bass trap fixing it a little, then adding another doubles the quality of the fix, then adding another, etc... Moving the traps that you have to the back of the room will make the room sound completely different than it does now. You have to put them all up in order for itto work out the way it is supposed to.

This is what I am thinking too (and hoping, of course).

BIG THANKS to all the replies so far, and I will investigate the speaker/distance/coupling issues too.

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Honestly, my mix room seems to lack low end

What are you using as a reference? A recording made in the same room as you monitor might be the problem. Especially if the room is LIEING to you? Playback your recording on a different system in a different room and environment and you might discover something.

Translation on other systems is the REAL point of having a room that has as flat response as possible. If the room lies to you during recording, and then again during mixing, then you can't trust what you hear untill you play it back on other systems.