VOXVENDOR
New member
eclips1 said:
Just thought I would try the quoting thing again...
Just thought I would try the quoting thing again...
W
Wallycleaver
New member
If the song is changed because it will sell more records that way.
If the song is to be exploited by the Back door boys or what ever.
You would use the phrase "warm yet punchy"
If the song is to be exploited by the Back door boys or what ever.
You would use the phrase "warm yet punchy"
J
JoanisT23
New member
this is an article posted on jack endino's website called HOW TO OVERPRODUCE A ROCK RECORD! (sorry that its so damn long!
First, spend about a month on "preproduction", making sure that everything is completely planned out so that no spontaneity is necessary or possible in the studio. If there are no "hits" there, make the band collaborate with outside songwriters. Line up extra studio musicians who are better players than the band themselves, just in case.
Next, book the most expensive studio you can find so that everyone but the band gets paid lots of money. The more expensive, the more the record label will take the project seriously, which is important. Book lots and lots of time. You'll need at least 48 tracks to accomodate all the room mics you'll set up for the drums, all of which will be buried by other instruments later anyway, and for the added keyboard tracks, even if the band has never had a keyboard player. And for all the backing vocal tracks, even if the band only has one singer.
Then, record all the instruments one at a time, but make the drummer play to a click track for every song so the music has no chance to breathe whatsoever. That way you can use lots of MIDI gear. Do multiple takes of each song. Use up at least 30 reels of 2-inch tape. Take the best parts of each take and splice them all together. You might even use a hard-disk recording system like Pro Tools, then transfer it all back to analog two-inch. Spend at least two weeks just compiling drum tracks like this. You'll need to rent at least a half a dozen snare drums, and you'll have to change drum heads every couple hours. If you really do it right, the entire band will never have to actually play a song together.
Now, start overdubbing each instrument, one at a time. Make sure everything is perfect. If necessary, do things over and over until absolute perfection is achieved. Do a hundred takes if you must. If this doesn't work, get "guest musicians" in to "help out".
Don't forget to hire someone who's good with samples and loops so the kids will think its hip! Better get some turntable scratching on there too.
Be sure to spend days and days just experimenting with sounds, different amplifiers, guitars, mics, speakers, basically trying every possible option you can think of to use up all that studio time you've booked. No matter how much time you book, you can use it up this way easily. Everyone involved will think they're working very hard.
Make sure you rent lots of expensive mics and expensive compressors and expensive preamps so you can convince yourself and everyone else how good it's sounding. Charge it to the band's recording budget of course. Make sure you have at least two or three compressors IN SERIES on everything you're recording. Any equipment with tubes in it is a sure bet, the older the better. The best is early-1970s-era Neve equipment, old Ampex analog recorders, and WW2-vintage tube microphones, since everyone knows that the technology of recording has continuously declined for the past 30+ years. Don't forget to get some old "ribbon" mics too.
Make sure that by the time it's finished everyone is absolutely, totally sick of all the songs and never wants to hear any of them again. Oops! Now it's time to mix it!
Better get someone with "fresh ears" (who's never heard any of it before) to mix it in a $2000/day SSL room with full automation. Make sure he's pretty famous, and of course you have to fly to LA, NYC or Nashville to do this, because there simply are no decent studios anywhere else. Make sure he compresses the hell out of everything as he mixes it. Compress each drum individually and then compress an overall stereo submix of 'em. Make sure to compress all the electric guitars even though a distorting guitar amp is the most extreme "compressor" in existence. Compress everything else, and then compress the overall mix. Add tons and tons of reverb to the drums on top of all those room mics, and add stereo chorus on everything else. Spare no expense. Spend at least two weeks on it. Then take it home and decide to pay for someone else to remix the whole thing.
Then get some New York coke-head mastering engineer to master it, and make sure he compresses the hell out of everything again and takes away all the low end and makes it super bright and crispy and harsh so it'll sound really LOUD on the radio. (Too bad about all those people with nice home stereos.)
Oh-oh! Your A+R guy just got fired! Looks like the record will never be released!
First, spend about a month on "preproduction", making sure that everything is completely planned out so that no spontaneity is necessary or possible in the studio. If there are no "hits" there, make the band collaborate with outside songwriters. Line up extra studio musicians who are better players than the band themselves, just in case.
Next, book the most expensive studio you can find so that everyone but the band gets paid lots of money. The more expensive, the more the record label will take the project seriously, which is important. Book lots and lots of time. You'll need at least 48 tracks to accomodate all the room mics you'll set up for the drums, all of which will be buried by other instruments later anyway, and for the added keyboard tracks, even if the band has never had a keyboard player. And for all the backing vocal tracks, even if the band only has one singer.
Then, record all the instruments one at a time, but make the drummer play to a click track for every song so the music has no chance to breathe whatsoever. That way you can use lots of MIDI gear. Do multiple takes of each song. Use up at least 30 reels of 2-inch tape. Take the best parts of each take and splice them all together. You might even use a hard-disk recording system like Pro Tools, then transfer it all back to analog two-inch. Spend at least two weeks just compiling drum tracks like this. You'll need to rent at least a half a dozen snare drums, and you'll have to change drum heads every couple hours. If you really do it right, the entire band will never have to actually play a song together.
Now, start overdubbing each instrument, one at a time. Make sure everything is perfect. If necessary, do things over and over until absolute perfection is achieved. Do a hundred takes if you must. If this doesn't work, get "guest musicians" in to "help out".
Don't forget to hire someone who's good with samples and loops so the kids will think its hip! Better get some turntable scratching on there too.
Be sure to spend days and days just experimenting with sounds, different amplifiers, guitars, mics, speakers, basically trying every possible option you can think of to use up all that studio time you've booked. No matter how much time you book, you can use it up this way easily. Everyone involved will think they're working very hard.
Make sure you rent lots of expensive mics and expensive compressors and expensive preamps so you can convince yourself and everyone else how good it's sounding. Charge it to the band's recording budget of course. Make sure you have at least two or three compressors IN SERIES on everything you're recording. Any equipment with tubes in it is a sure bet, the older the better. The best is early-1970s-era Neve equipment, old Ampex analog recorders, and WW2-vintage tube microphones, since everyone knows that the technology of recording has continuously declined for the past 30+ years. Don't forget to get some old "ribbon" mics too.
Make sure that by the time it's finished everyone is absolutely, totally sick of all the songs and never wants to hear any of them again. Oops! Now it's time to mix it!
Better get someone with "fresh ears" (who's never heard any of it before) to mix it in a $2000/day SSL room with full automation. Make sure he's pretty famous, and of course you have to fly to LA, NYC or Nashville to do this, because there simply are no decent studios anywhere else. Make sure he compresses the hell out of everything as he mixes it. Compress each drum individually and then compress an overall stereo submix of 'em. Make sure to compress all the electric guitars even though a distorting guitar amp is the most extreme "compressor" in existence. Compress everything else, and then compress the overall mix. Add tons and tons of reverb to the drums on top of all those room mics, and add stereo chorus on everything else. Spare no expense. Spend at least two weeks on it. Then take it home and decide to pay for someone else to remix the whole thing.
Then get some New York coke-head mastering engineer to master it, and make sure he compresses the hell out of everything again and takes away all the low end and makes it super bright and crispy and harsh so it'll sound really LOUD on the radio. (Too bad about all those people with nice home stereos.)
Oh-oh! Your A+R guy just got fired! Looks like the record will never be released!
Prism
New member
ROFLMAO....
Isaiah
Isaiah
MrZekeMan
New member
Re: The king of overproducing,,,,,,,
If Def Leppard's Hysteria is over produced, then I likes'a the overproduced sound.
The beauty of music is that different styles, sounds, even skill levels that are diametrically opposed to one another can both sound equally good.
Point in case: The above mentioned Def Leppard album. To me the sound on that album is incredible. The other end of the spectrum: On Keith Whitley's greatest hits they included a song "Tell Lori I love her". It sounded like he recorded it on the bus somwhere on a portable tape player with a built-in mic. (a slight exaggeration.)
Both are good. To me music is about emotion. I picture Keith, fighting the demons that eventually killed him. At sometime during his troubled life, he sat down and put
that song on tape in it's most preliminary stages of being written.
That may be an extreme example. But the point is, that you can enjoy, and like both.
That is a saving grace for me. I'll never be an Eddie Van Halen. But I don't have to be. There are plenty of non-virtuoso's out there that right and produce music that is very simple, yet it tugs at your heart strings. Or, it makes you happy. Or, for just for a moment it makes you feel really glad to be alive. Or, it moves you to tears, and cleanses your soul a little bit.
Such is the beauty of music. It's about the emotion..... and it is reached in many different ways.
Zeke
VOXVENDOR said:
If Def Leppard's Hysteria is over produced, then I likes'a the overproduced sound.
The beauty of music is that different styles, sounds, even skill levels that are diametrically opposed to one another can both sound equally good.
Point in case: The above mentioned Def Leppard album. To me the sound on that album is incredible. The other end of the spectrum: On Keith Whitley's greatest hits they included a song "Tell Lori I love her". It sounded like he recorded it on the bus somwhere on a portable tape player with a built-in mic. (a slight exaggeration.)
Both are good. To me music is about emotion. I picture Keith, fighting the demons that eventually killed him. At sometime during his troubled life, he sat down and put
that song on tape in it's most preliminary stages of being written.
That may be an extreme example. But the point is, that you can enjoy, and like both.
That is a saving grace for me. I'll never be an Eddie Van Halen. But I don't have to be. There are plenty of non-virtuoso's out there that right and produce music that is very simple, yet it tugs at your heart strings. Or, it makes you happy. Or, for just for a moment it makes you feel really glad to be alive. Or, it moves you to tears, and cleanses your soul a little bit.
Such is the beauty of music. It's about the emotion..... and it is reached in many different ways.
Zeke
Gidge
Lapdance Test Dummy
Ive seen DefLeppard live so dont say it cant be reproduced (spare me all the comments about using recorded background vocals or whatever technique they use)....if you use a synth, you are utilizing technology...why not?....
And even if you cant recreate it live, why shouldnt it be done in the studio...thats like saying everything in the studio should be recorded live...one take...no overdubs....thats ridiculous.....
BTW KekeMan, I actually heard a rumor that "Tell Lori I Love Her" was actually recorded very similar to that....
And even if you cant recreate it live, why shouldnt it be done in the studio...thats like saying everything in the studio should be recorded live...one take...no overdubs....thats ridiculous.....
BTW KekeMan, I actually heard a rumor that "Tell Lori I Love Her" was actually recorded very similar to that....
crosstudio
New member
To me music is about emotion.
To me music is about emotion.
if the emotion is gone, the song is overproduced. listen to old blues records and feel the tune. when the song is and the singer is right, and the band is tight... that's magic. but if you think those recorders back then didn't do their darndest to 'produce' the tune you are mistaken. they did the best with what they had, but what they had was to do their best going to tape.
you ever seen a girl that was just friggin gorgeous. i mean no makeup, no push up bra, no super clingy, ass lifting drawls. putting makup on her is overproducing. on the other hand, you take a semi-attractive girl, and put her in the right clothes, with her hair done just right, and flawless makeup, and she 'becomes' beautiful. some songs are just stunning. some songs are not.
the question is: can i polish up that not so great song enough to make you buy it anyway?
bell-biv-devoe made a killing on weak songs... polished turds. by the 2nd album their fans had figured out that the songs were weak and loosely based on whatever popular type of hip-hop sound was being recorded at the time. but by then, they'd made a fortune.
To me music is about emotion.
if the emotion is gone, the song is overproduced. listen to old blues records and feel the tune. when the song is and the singer is right, and the band is tight... that's magic. but if you think those recorders back then didn't do their darndest to 'produce' the tune you are mistaken. they did the best with what they had, but what they had was to do their best going to tape.
you ever seen a girl that was just friggin gorgeous. i mean no makeup, no push up bra, no super clingy, ass lifting drawls. putting makup on her is overproducing. on the other hand, you take a semi-attractive girl, and put her in the right clothes, with her hair done just right, and flawless makeup, and she 'becomes' beautiful. some songs are just stunning. some songs are not.
the question is: can i polish up that not so great song enough to make you buy it anyway?
bell-biv-devoe made a killing on weak songs... polished turds. by the 2nd album their fans had figured out that the songs were weak and loosely based on whatever popular type of hip-hop sound was being recorded at the time. but by then, they'd made a fortune.
MrZekeMan
New member
Gidge said:
Gidge,
I'm curious. What exactly did you hear about the way the Keith Whitley song was recorded?
Zeke
MrZekeMan
New member
Re: To me music is about emotion.
Perfect analogy crosstudio.
crosstudio said:
Perfect analogy crosstudio.
dobro
Well-known member
Producers over-produce things, right, not the engineer. 49 mics in the room - isn't that over-engineering? In both cases it's a matter of there being too much, and less would be better. Overproducing means the producer added too many bits and pieces, and it detracts from the power of the song itself. Anyone here old enough to remember Lenny Cohen's first album, the one with Suzanne and The Sisters of Mercy? Loads of great songs, but many people think it would have been *way* better with far less instrumentation. By contrast, listen to (I really hope you do!) The Boatman's Call by Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds. He's got a band of 7 *killer* musicians behind him - these guys are very, very good, and yet that album is so lean and spare, sometimes just 2 or 3 or 4 instruments and every song is so powerfully done. (They produced themselves, by the way, in collaboration with somebody or something called Flood.)
Gidge
Lapdance Test Dummy
If the engineer puts up 50 mics in a room, its only giving somebody more options at mixing time....all 50 mics dont have to be used...so overproducing is not in the hands of the engineer....
sonusman
Banned
Well, I seen a couple of movies once.
The camera were too good.
The backgrounds were too perfect.
The plot flowed to well.
The special effects were too well done.
etc........
I refer back to my original statement:
People who think something is overproduced are just envious of the sound that was achieved!
Just because Star Wars can't be done in a damn theatre doesn't mean that it isn't a great damn movie series!
Recording great CD's ISN'T about doing stuff that can resproduced live, or neccesarily about something that was performed "live" by the performer. It is about achieving the end result that the artist envisioned!
I remember hearing REO Speedwagon in 1978 live. It didn't sound that close to the album. But the album rocked, and so they they live.
There is no such thing as overproduced! There are bad recordings. Bad songs. Bad productions. But "over produced" is just simply a stupid statement!
Maybe some of you should dive in a little deeper into what "producing" actually is before you throw out a general slam on it. Producing is about getting the sound that the song writer envisioned. However that is done certainly cannot be called "over" anything, unless you call it "over achieved maybe. But even then, it WAS achieved, and if it sounds good, it sounds good. Who cares what made it sound good.
This thread is taking on an air of "something to talk about" and "how this or that suck or rocks" rather then a realistic discussion about production.
I have had songs that were the quickest ones to record on a CD that were duped "over produced", when in fact a majority of the tracking and mixing happened in a much shorter period of time the the more "raw" track did.
Think about it before any of you go talking about things that you don't know for a fact about how stuff was produced. I have read some pretty off the mark stuff in this thread. It is almost discouraging how people will dub something "over produced" when in fact it had a minimal approach to the production. Yet, will dub something as "natural" when it had a lot of applied production.
Start producing some fine sounding recordings, then you will KNOW that their is no such thing as "over produced".
A guy who is tired of the bs
Ed
The camera were too good.
The backgrounds were too perfect.
The plot flowed to well.
The special effects were too well done.
etc........
I refer back to my original statement:
People who think something is overproduced are just envious of the sound that was achieved!
Just because Star Wars can't be done in a damn theatre doesn't mean that it isn't a great damn movie series!
Recording great CD's ISN'T about doing stuff that can resproduced live, or neccesarily about something that was performed "live" by the performer. It is about achieving the end result that the artist envisioned!
I remember hearing REO Speedwagon in 1978 live. It didn't sound that close to the album. But the album rocked, and so they they live.
There is no such thing as overproduced! There are bad recordings. Bad songs. Bad productions. But "over produced" is just simply a stupid statement!
Maybe some of you should dive in a little deeper into what "producing" actually is before you throw out a general slam on it. Producing is about getting the sound that the song writer envisioned. However that is done certainly cannot be called "over" anything, unless you call it "over achieved maybe. But even then, it WAS achieved, and if it sounds good, it sounds good. Who cares what made it sound good.
This thread is taking on an air of "something to talk about" and "how this or that suck or rocks" rather then a realistic discussion about production.
I have had songs that were the quickest ones to record on a CD that were duped "over produced", when in fact a majority of the tracking and mixing happened in a much shorter period of time the the more "raw" track did.
Think about it before any of you go talking about things that you don't know for a fact about how stuff was produced. I have read some pretty off the mark stuff in this thread. It is almost discouraging how people will dub something "over produced" when in fact it had a minimal approach to the production. Yet, will dub something as "natural" when it had a lot of applied production.
Start producing some fine sounding recordings, then you will KNOW that their is no such thing as "over produced".
A guy who is tired of the bs
Ed
hixmix
Halibut, North Dakota
Two words: Michael Bolton
MrZekeMan
New member
Man I sure would like to have me one of those natural beauties that the crossmeister spoke of. Just a natural beauty.....
Come to think of it, I sure would like to have me one of those those semi-attractive girls he was talking about. One that's made up to look beautiful....
God I'm lonely.
Bust seriously folks....er...I meant to say: But seriously folks.
You can take that incredible "natural beauty" and you can still put just a touch of makeup here and there. It doesnt' hide any of that natural beauty she has. You can't even really tell she has it on. It just highlights what she has naturally so well. Then you take her out of her flour sack dress, and put something modest on her. Not one of those dresses that you have to spread Crisco on her hips to get it to slide on. Just something that accentuates her natural lines. Then she goes from a natural beauty to a girl that makes you walk into walls and street signs when she walks by.
I'm a total freakin newbie. I don't even have my recorder yet. I have a 2480 ordered that will ship to me when they hit the shelves. I'm really trying to take in all the knowledge I can right now so I will have a bit of a headstart when I get my machine in.
But, I do know what I like. And, I think common sense will play a big roll. If you have a singer like Mariah or Celine, you probably won't need to cake a lot of makeup on them. However, a little will no doubt be in order. If even the very best singers didn't need some producing, then they would all have multitracks and be recording there own crap. It would sure save them some money.
Everything I've read in these threads, stresses the "ears" so much. To develop the ability to tell for yourself what is good. I hope I can do that.
I won't give a rats A## if somebody thinks something that I record is "overproduced" if it sounds good to me. There is a plethera of so-called "overproduced" albums out there that are selling in the seven digits. They dang sure ain't overproduced to the folks that are slapping there money down at Wal-Mart. They like what they hear. They enjoy it.
It's human nature to set up our own little standards as to what everything should be. What's better to drive, Ford, Chevy, or Dodge? They go around with there little stickers on their windshields that show Calvin pissing on the logo of whatever they're not driving. Everybody that doesn't agree with there omniscient view of what is the better value in transportation deserves to be pissed on. What's that about? Let people enjoy whatever the crap they want to enjoy. Better yet, learn to not be so dang closed minded.
If you don't like it, well that's your perogative. But I would love nothing better than to have a three car garage with a Viper, a Corvette, and a Cobra sitting in it.
I just hope I can produce something that sounds good, as per the comments of sonus. It no doubt will take some time before I will be able to do that, if ever. But I'm gonna give it all I've got. Also, I think an open-minded attitude will help. I know what sounds good to me, and a lot of different styles of singing, music, and production sounds good to me. I just hope I can capture something for myself, that I can be proud of.
I've said it before, now I'll say it again. I really appreciate all the input of these experienced people on here. It's incredible to me, to be able to have access to true professionals of the industry like sonus and others. I know it has already put me years ahead of where I would be if I had to learn all these techniques on my on.
I've been reading on the about.com boards too. Is there any other message boards like this one out there? I've been obsessively reading this one and I think I've almost exausted it. I've copied and pasted 32 pages of tips and opinions of some of the heavy hitters on here.
Peace,
ZEKE
Come to think of it, I sure would like to have me one of those those semi-attractive girls he was talking about. One that's made up to look beautiful....
God I'm lonely.
Bust seriously folks....er...I meant to say: But seriously folks.
You can take that incredible "natural beauty" and you can still put just a touch of makeup here and there. It doesnt' hide any of that natural beauty she has. You can't even really tell she has it on. It just highlights what she has naturally so well. Then you take her out of her flour sack dress, and put something modest on her. Not one of those dresses that you have to spread Crisco on her hips to get it to slide on. Just something that accentuates her natural lines. Then she goes from a natural beauty to a girl that makes you walk into walls and street signs when she walks by.
I'm a total freakin newbie. I don't even have my recorder yet. I have a 2480 ordered that will ship to me when they hit the shelves. I'm really trying to take in all the knowledge I can right now so I will have a bit of a headstart when I get my machine in.
But, I do know what I like. And, I think common sense will play a big roll. If you have a singer like Mariah or Celine, you probably won't need to cake a lot of makeup on them. However, a little will no doubt be in order. If even the very best singers didn't need some producing, then they would all have multitracks and be recording there own crap. It would sure save them some money.
Everything I've read in these threads, stresses the "ears" so much. To develop the ability to tell for yourself what is good. I hope I can do that.
I won't give a rats A## if somebody thinks something that I record is "overproduced" if it sounds good to me. There is a plethera of so-called "overproduced" albums out there that are selling in the seven digits. They dang sure ain't overproduced to the folks that are slapping there money down at Wal-Mart. They like what they hear. They enjoy it.
It's human nature to set up our own little standards as to what everything should be. What's better to drive, Ford, Chevy, or Dodge? They go around with there little stickers on their windshields that show Calvin pissing on the logo of whatever they're not driving. Everybody that doesn't agree with there omniscient view of what is the better value in transportation deserves to be pissed on. What's that about? Let people enjoy whatever the crap they want to enjoy. Better yet, learn to not be so dang closed minded.
If you don't like it, well that's your perogative. But I would love nothing better than to have a three car garage with a Viper, a Corvette, and a Cobra sitting in it.
I just hope I can produce something that sounds good, as per the comments of sonus. It no doubt will take some time before I will be able to do that, if ever. But I'm gonna give it all I've got. Also, I think an open-minded attitude will help. I know what sounds good to me, and a lot of different styles of singing, music, and production sounds good to me. I just hope I can capture something for myself, that I can be proud of.
I've said it before, now I'll say it again. I really appreciate all the input of these experienced people on here. It's incredible to me, to be able to have access to true professionals of the industry like sonus and others. I know it has already put me years ahead of where I would be if I had to learn all these techniques on my on.
I've been reading on the about.com boards too. Is there any other message boards like this one out there? I've been obsessively reading this one and I think I've almost exausted it. I've copied and pasted 32 pages of tips and opinions of some of the heavy hitters on here.
Peace,
ZEKE
nessbass
New member
hey Ed,
I totally get your point. But I still think that there is just a problem in definig what 'overproduced' really is. Some of the opinions on here are quite okay, if you understand overproduced = inappropriately produced.
Listen to some Nirvana stuff. Some of the songs really sound crappy, but they are well produced. Listen to the drums on 'Dive' from the Incesticide album. They sound like - don't know what, but you can be damn sure that they are produced! (production credits: Butch Vig)
The other way round, one could try to polish these drums to get a more mainstream sound, a nicer sound, a more acoustic sound - whatever one could call a better sound. But that would be inappropriate and thus: overproduced.
I don't know, if I made myself clear here. All in all, I agree with Ed in that a good produced sound is a sound that captures all that was intended by the artist and/or the producer of the song. As I said in my previous post, Enya isn't overproduced in my eyes (or ears). It's appropriate, and her music needs it. To some, it also sounds good and I think it captures, what she wanted to express.
That's it for now
David.
I totally get your point. But I still think that there is just a problem in definig what 'overproduced' really is. Some of the opinions on here are quite okay, if you understand overproduced = inappropriately produced.
Listen to some Nirvana stuff. Some of the songs really sound crappy, but they are well produced. Listen to the drums on 'Dive' from the Incesticide album. They sound like - don't know what, but you can be damn sure that they are produced! (production credits: Butch Vig)
The other way round, one could try to polish these drums to get a more mainstream sound, a nicer sound, a more acoustic sound - whatever one could call a better sound. But that would be inappropriate and thus: overproduced.
I don't know, if I made myself clear here. All in all, I agree with Ed in that a good produced sound is a sound that captures all that was intended by the artist and/or the producer of the song. As I said in my previous post, Enya isn't overproduced in my eyes (or ears). It's appropriate, and her music needs it. To some, it also sounds good and I think it captures, what she wanted to express.
That's it for now
David.
BBB
Member
Hmm.
It all depends on what you are looking for. What the music calls for. What accentuates the music and what detracts from it.
For example, as a general rule, buttloads of compression and delay doesn't get added to jazz or classical. However, commercial rock, techno, hip hop, etc. gets the crap compressed out of it.
The term "overproduced" is often used by critics who prefer a raw unaffected sound. These people prefer a wide range of dynamics and an open quality to the music.
Hell, if you like it the way you produced it, its not overproduced to you. So go ahead and squash the life out of your tracks. Just be careful about not causing too much ear fatigue in your listener.
Also, try to record the tracks correctly at the start. That way you may not find it necessary to overcompensate a bad performance by covering it with "overproduction."
Me
It all depends on what you are looking for. What the music calls for. What accentuates the music and what detracts from it.
For example, as a general rule, buttloads of compression and delay doesn't get added to jazz or classical. However, commercial rock, techno, hip hop, etc. gets the crap compressed out of it.
The term "overproduced" is often used by critics who prefer a raw unaffected sound. These people prefer a wide range of dynamics and an open quality to the music.
Hell, if you like it the way you produced it, its not overproduced to you. So go ahead and squash the life out of your tracks. Just be careful about not causing too much ear fatigue in your listener.
Also, try to record the tracks correctly at the start. That way you may not find it necessary to overcompensate a bad performance by covering it with "overproduction."
Me
D
Diragor
New member
I think part of the misunderstanding about some points in this thread come from the definition of "producer." The duties implied by that job title seem to vary greatly from one band or one project to the next. It's not just about getting a good sound through engineering or mixing, in many cases the producer seems to run the show from start to finish - deciding what performances are good enough, determining who is going to record what part and when and how....etc. I can think of two instances I've read about that illustrate my idea of what "overproducing" means (and that it does, in fact, exist).
Situation 1 : A fairly extreme metal band. The producer sets them all up in a single room, puts pieces of foam in between everybody to minimize bleeding between instrument tracks, mics the guitar cabs with an SM57, gives the singer an SM58, puts wedge monitors in front of everybody. Everything is recorded live with minimal punch-ins and fixes later. The album sounds great and truly captures the energy of the band and that "live feel". (this is a combination of things I've read about the recording of two different big-name bands with a big-name producer)
Situation 2 : A now fairly mainstream metal band. Each instrument is recorded seperately. Endless takes are done for each instrument, the drummer sits in a room for hours splicing together the best parts of all the drum takes, computer editing is used to zoom down to the sample level and make sure the bass guitar and kick drum accents match exactly. Some backing strings, various percussion instruments, layers of backing vocals (though the band only really has one singer live and rarely makes attempts to (poorly) cover the additional parts) and various other B.S. is experimented with in the nearly one full year of production. The album sounds great.
Both albums sound great, but the second one is extra shiny and perfect. The first one sounds like a band is right in your living room, blasting right in your face. The second one sounds more like a controlled, careful, perfect composition, but is it overproduced? My answer would be yes. The power and emotional force of a recording does not come entirely from the production - it comes in the form of an unexplainable "vibe" that comes from the performances. The production can mask, alter and otherwise destroy part of what makes a great album great. I suppose you can be moved by material that has been produced in the way described in that second situation, I guess it partially depends on the kind of material and the particular artist being recorded.
Whether I can produce something as good as what I call the "overproduced" album is totally irrelevent. Before I read anything about how these albums were recorded I would've already guessed that the second one spent a lot more time in production and I would've preferred the first one for the more "real" quality it has. And I say overproduced instead of just overprocessed because some of the overproduction was the way the original parts were recorded, not just how they were mixed after the fact. Some electronic or heavily produced music works on its own terms, but this kind of artificially perfected version of music that is supposed to be full of energy and raw emotion doesn't work for me, and that's the label I choose for it: overproduced.
Damn, this is long but I still have a lot of time to waste here at work.....
Situation 1 : A fairly extreme metal band. The producer sets them all up in a single room, puts pieces of foam in between everybody to minimize bleeding between instrument tracks, mics the guitar cabs with an SM57, gives the singer an SM58, puts wedge monitors in front of everybody. Everything is recorded live with minimal punch-ins and fixes later. The album sounds great and truly captures the energy of the band and that "live feel". (this is a combination of things I've read about the recording of two different big-name bands with a big-name producer)
Situation 2 : A now fairly mainstream metal band. Each instrument is recorded seperately. Endless takes are done for each instrument, the drummer sits in a room for hours splicing together the best parts of all the drum takes, computer editing is used to zoom down to the sample level and make sure the bass guitar and kick drum accents match exactly. Some backing strings, various percussion instruments, layers of backing vocals (though the band only really has one singer live and rarely makes attempts to (poorly) cover the additional parts) and various other B.S. is experimented with in the nearly one full year of production. The album sounds great.
Both albums sound great, but the second one is extra shiny and perfect. The first one sounds like a band is right in your living room, blasting right in your face. The second one sounds more like a controlled, careful, perfect composition, but is it overproduced? My answer would be yes. The power and emotional force of a recording does not come entirely from the production - it comes in the form of an unexplainable "vibe" that comes from the performances. The production can mask, alter and otherwise destroy part of what makes a great album great. I suppose you can be moved by material that has been produced in the way described in that second situation, I guess it partially depends on the kind of material and the particular artist being recorded.
Whether I can produce something as good as what I call the "overproduced" album is totally irrelevent. Before I read anything about how these albums were recorded I would've already guessed that the second one spent a lot more time in production and I would've preferred the first one for the more "real" quality it has. And I say overproduced instead of just overprocessed because some of the overproduction was the way the original parts were recorded, not just how they were mixed after the fact. Some electronic or heavily produced music works on its own terms, but this kind of artificially perfected version of music that is supposed to be full of energy and raw emotion doesn't work for me, and that's the label I choose for it: overproduced.
Damn, this is long but I still have a lot of time to waste here at work.....
K
Kaydis
New member
Music is about emotion (is there an echo in here).
If a song fails to make any impact on you, leaves you cold, you feel nothing when you hear it, then you look for reasons why. Critics are particularly good at this. But IMHO a critic is nothing more than someone who didn't like a song and is being paid to look for reasons why. When a critic says something is overproduced 9 times out of 10 I would bet they wouldn't like the song any better if there were a lot less "production." Most of the time I hear that complaint, its over a song that I think had nothing there in the first place. Its just that the production tried, but failed to make something out of nothing.
Alan Parsons is one of my all time favorite producers (I'm showing my age). He is one of the few producers I can think of who has loudly and consistenly been accused of overproducing. Yet, Dark Side Of The Moon is considered one of the best albums of all time. Does he overproduce. Does his production suck all the life out of the music. Or in the cases where people feel that way, was there ever anything there in the first place to suck the life out of.
If a song fails to make any impact on you, leaves you cold, you feel nothing when you hear it, then you look for reasons why. Critics are particularly good at this. But IMHO a critic is nothing more than someone who didn't like a song and is being paid to look for reasons why. When a critic says something is overproduced 9 times out of 10 I would bet they wouldn't like the song any better if there were a lot less "production." Most of the time I hear that complaint, its over a song that I think had nothing there in the first place. Its just that the production tried, but failed to make something out of nothing.
Alan Parsons is one of my all time favorite producers (I'm showing my age). He is one of the few producers I can think of who has loudly and consistenly been accused of overproducing. Yet, Dark Side Of The Moon is considered one of the best albums of all time. Does he overproduce. Does his production suck all the life out of the music. Or in the cases where people feel that way, was there ever anything there in the first place to suck the life out of.
MrZekeMan
New member
If Dark Side of the Moon is over-produced.......then give me over-produced any day of the week. And you can call it over-produced, or anything you want to. I call it awesome rock & roll.
In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with getting it right. I don't give a rip how much they overdub or single track.
Just my opinion.
Zeke
In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with getting it right. I don't give a rip how much they overdub or single track.
Just my opinion.
Zeke
JFogarty
New member
Who cares how someone gets a great sound? If they have to overdub a bajillion times, but the album sounds great, I really don't see why thats a bad thing. Do it till it stops improving the sound.