Overheads within $400 budget considering current mics on hand

nuemes

nuemes

Be Here Now
Please respond only if you’ve had experience with multiple OH mics in the past. Here’s what I’ve got now:

MXL603 (2)
AKG C414uls (paid $350 used)
AT4033 (paid $300 used)

I’m recording mostly 70’s rock & occasional jazz. I want a natural, non-hyped sound yet at the same time I’m typically recording low budget, poorly tuned drum kits so I’m not sure if a natural sounding mic is really the right answer at this time.

For rock I mic the snare (SM57/i5), kick (ATM25) and toms (SM57’s) and have been using the MXL603’s as overheads. When mixing I cut the lows out of the OH’s and use them mainly for the cymbal sound and to get some high end from the toms. The preamps are Digi 002’s for the OH’s.

The room is small: 7x8 with 7ft ceiling and is as dead as I can get it (carpeted walls with some diffusion).

I ran a couple mono room mic tests in front of the kit last night with the mics I have through an Avalon M5:

MXL603: Brightest of the mics by far. Extremely hyped high-end; kind of washy. Sounds almost out of control compared to the other mics; not well defined. Very little body (mids/bass). Does nothing good for the snare.

AT4033: Somewhat hyped high-end but not nearly so much as the MXL603. Good snare and tom sound, good overall room sound, less low end/fullness than the C414uls. Kind of boxy sounding but in a good way; has a 70’s FM radio vibe to it. More focused than the MXL603.

AKG C414uls: Sounds much darker than the MXL603 & AT4033 (due to the fact that they’re both hyped); the most neutral of the 3 mics. Easily the best overall room mic; picks everything up well. The most focused sounding; best bass and mids; great snare and toms. Cymbals sound boring on the AKG compared to the other 2 mics.

A second listener liked the MXL603 and AT4033 best. I liked the AT4033 best because it was brighter than the C414 but not as out-of-control hyped as the MXL603. As I don’t have good outboard EQ it might be better to get brightness from the AT4033 rather than adding EQ to the C414 through software EQ.

So here’s what I’m thinking: pick up another AT4033 for $300 used and use them at the overheads, or pick up a stereo pair of some other mic that would run no more than $400 used, assuming there’s a better option than the AT4033 in that price range. I’ve heard good things about the Shure SM81 & ATM450 which both fit my budget but have not heard them; not sure if they would be an improvement over to AT4033.

What would you do given the mics on hand/budget?
 
If you want something darker, why not try the Fatheads or an AT3035 or even 2020? I've gotten great results with my 3035 as an overhead and just bought another one. Never heard the 414 but if you like the flat response then you'd probably be happy with another one.
 
Rode NT5 All the way! Matched pair is a tiny little beyond your budget. I think it's about 420 by now.
 
You are going to get a million suggestions.

Other than duplicating the mentioned AKG or AT, if you want to add something new to the arsenal I would suggest a pair of Oktava MC012s which are a little darker than the AT4033. They are also good for guitar.
My ultimate "go to" mics for Jazz kit or natural minimalist full round sound is a pair of Kel HM-1s.
They are excellent, far from boring, but not bright. They have a very good reach factor and are full bodied on the low end. A pair costs about what your budget is.
I don't often use them in the traditional x/y configuration, but They work well in the "Recorderman" setup or "John Glynn" method.
 
If you like the 4033, then just get another one.

There isn't anything out there that will fix the problems associated with poorly-tuned drums or a bad room. And you're probably better off going with what you know, and have had positive experiences with.
 
A second 414 and match the model you have....there are several..................this is the most used mic for overheads in the world. Another 4033 is a good bet also and I wouldnt trade mine for anything else. The Sm81's are gonna give you a very aggressive sound and make the cymbals really 'stick'...this is one of my five 'desert island mics' though not everyone likes em. The Kel suggestion is a very good one. The HM1 is another of my personal favorites and will do things that a LOT of much more expensive mics only wish they could.


Part of your problem is the size of your room. 7X8 with the acoustic properties of a full drumset is going to be trying at best. Couple that with inexperienced bands and drummers who think tuning means putting on the drumhead and I can feel your pain. If you do a large variety of these different sessions, then by all means go for the 'boring' cymbals and get the 414. Control is your friend.
 
xstatic said:
I must say, I love all my Pelusos so far. Thats probably why I picked up the line:D
Click to expand...

xstatic, you are such a gear whore. I noticed you're in UT. I plan to drive there from Seattle in 2 weeks. We're stopping in Boise, Salt Lake, Bryce Canyon & then up to Yellowstone. Never been to UT; any recommendations of things to do/see (skiing is not an option, my wife's knee is messed up at the moment). Any music clubs worth checking out?

As for mics I went with another AT4033 ($274 new - thanks pohaku for the headsup about the used price). It makes sense for the moment as it can backup as a second acoustic & vocal mic and fits budget. I'm going to keep my eyes peeled in the meantime for a good deal on used C414uls' and SM81's. Thanks everyone for your responses.
 
There is not a whole ton to do in the SLC area, but there is some stuff. Let me know what dates you are coming through and I might have some better options for you:)
 
nuemes said:
Please respond only if you’ve had experience with multiple OH mics in the past. Here’s what I’ve got now:

MXL603 (2)
AKG C414uls (paid $350 used)
AT4033 (paid $300 used)

I’m recording mostly 70’s rock & occasional jazz. I want a natural, non-hyped sound yet at the same time I’m typically recording low budget, poorly tuned drum kits so I’m not sure if a natural sounding mic is really the right answer at this time.

For rock I mic the snare (SM57/i5), kick (ATM25) and toms (SM57’s) and have been using the MXL603’s as overheads. When mixing I cut the lows out of the OH’s and use them mainly for the cymbal sound and to get some high end from the toms. The preamps are Digi 002’s for the OH’s.

The room is small: 7x8 with 7ft ceiling and is as dead as I can get it (carpeted walls with some diffusion).

I ran a couple mono room mic tests in front of the kit last night with the mics I have through an Avalon M5:

MXL603: Brightest of the mics by far. Extremely hyped high-end; kind of washy. Sounds almost out of control compared to the other mics; not well defined. Very little body (mids/bass). Does nothing good for the snare.

AT4033: Somewhat hyped high-end but not nearly so much as the MXL603. Good snare and tom sound, good overall room sound, less low end/fullness than the C414uls. Kind of boxy sounding but in a good way; has a 70’s FM radio vibe to it. More focused than the MXL603.

AKG C414uls: Sounds much darker than the MXL603 & AT4033 (due to the fact that they’re both hyped); the most neutral of the 3 mics. Easily the best overall room mic; picks everything up well. The most focused sounding; best bass and mids; great snare and toms. Cymbals sound boring on the AKG compared to the other 2 mics.

A second listener liked the MXL603 and AT4033 best. I liked the AT4033 best because it was brighter than the C414 but not as out-of-control hyped as the MXL603. As I don’t have good outboard EQ it might be better to get brightness from the AT4033 rather than adding EQ to the C414 through software EQ.

So here’s what I’m thinking: pick up another AT4033 for $300 used and use them at the overheads, or pick up a stereo pair of some other mic that would run no more than $400 used, assuming there’s a better option than the AT4033 in that price range. I’ve heard good things about the Shure SM81 & ATM450 which both fit my budget but have not heard them; not sure if they would be an improvement over to AT4033.

What would you do given the mics on hand/budget?
Click to expand...

The 603 have a an easy fix for the high end. You replace 3 easy to access capacitors and it makes them VERY nice sounding. I prefer the modified 603's over SM81's..

Here is a sample of recordings done with them on the "other" board.

http://www.recordingproject.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=20918
 
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After getting another AT4033 and switching them out for the MXL603's as overheads I compared drum mixes. The AT4033 clears up all the issues I had with the MXL603's: brittle, harsh high end and lack of definition.

The AT4033's are much more focused, defined, smoother sounding. Just plain better. They are very good mics considering price & how well they suit male vox/acoustic guitar/OH's.
 
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