Overhead phasing?

  • Thread starter Thread starter ecktronic
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ecktronic

ecktronic

Mixing and Mastering.
Heres a short sample of an unprocessed OH recording.

http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?fid=8278

I panned each side 100%.
The sides are totally unbalanced, but what Im asking is, can you hear alot of phasing?
Is the phasing from the OHs badly positioned or more so from the small room I used? (The room is big enough for 2 drum kits roughly.)

Cheers,
Eck
 
Last edited:
Not Much Help

I am at work where I can't listen.
But I have recorded a lot of drums.

What is your overhead technique?
If it is XY or ORTF you should not be getting phasing. If your sound is thin like it is comb filtering then setting up some absorbant material around the walls will help.
If what you hear is the cymbals washing / phasing in tone , then you probably have the mics set up where when you hit the cymbals, the edge of the cymbals crosses the front of the mic when hit. It will sound just like the cymbals are running through a phase sweep guitar pedal.
 
tmix said:
I am at work where I can't listen.
But I have recorded a lot of drums.
Click to expand...
I am not bad at setting up OHs, but this time I didn't have any mic stands so had to hang them from rails on the ceiling, so had no way of positioning them in any half decent manner.

I am really just looking to see if folk can hear what kind of phasing is going on in the sample.

Cheers,
Eck
 
ecktronic said:
I panned each side 100%.
The sides are totally unbalanced, but what Im asking is, can you hear alot of phasing?
Click to expand...

What kind of phasing are you talking about? If you are asking about phase cancellation or comb filtering that only happens when two mics are summed to a mono channel.

There is always going to be a lot of "masking" when recording a drum set. Different sounds can end up covering up others and rooms with an uneven frequency response can cause certain elements or frequencies to be louder and therefore mask others.

Small rooms can make cymbals very splashy sounding, in other words they tend to accentuate the frequencies above 5k and can mask the rest of the kit. Is that what you are talking about?

With proper playing technique, being very light on the cymbals, a drummer can use this high end boost to add some high end resonance to the drums attack and give you a killer sound.
 
TexRoadkill said:
If you are asking about phase cancellation or comb filtering that only happens when two mics are summed to a mono channel.
Click to expand...

You can get comb filtering and phase cancellation with ONE MIC actually.

Eck - you need to get a better sample..........
 
Well I just listened while taking it in and out of mono monitoring, and I heard no phase cancellation at all. My only critique is that the kick drum sounds a little weak!
 
eraos said:
Your problem might be that they don't want to be panned 100% Left and Right. Try bringing them back in a bit to see if it helps.
Click to expand...

Possibly, but with other instruments in there it might sound just fine as is.

Lately I've been panning my overheads at 75 or 80%, and it sounds a little more natural to me.
 
eraos said:
You can capture it at the source, such as recording a reflection off of a nearby wall in addition to the intended source.
Click to expand...

Exactly, and I'm surprised nobody suggested this as the possible problem earlier. A hollow sound is not only common, but typical in untreated home studios. If you have overheads and a ceiling lower than maybe 16 feet, "early" reflections off the ceiling combine with the direct sound of the kit and create a phasing effect. If the cymbals move around when you hit them, that makes the effect even more noticeable because the peak and null frequencies change.

--Ethan
 
TexRoadkill said:
Small rooms can make cymbals very splashy sounding, in other words they tend to accentuate the frequencies above 5k and can mask the rest of the kit. Is that what you are talking about?
Click to expand...
I used a small room, so Im thinking taht the phasing is coming from the room reflections maybe. I think I can hear the phasing in the snare.
TexRoadkill said:
With proper playing technique, being very light on the cymbals, a drummer can use this high end boost to add some high end resonance to the drums attack and give you a killer sound.
Click to expand...
Very true. Light cymbals and heavy everything else=a nice drum recording, and a breeze to mix. :)

Eck
 
NL5 said:
You can get comb filtering and phase cancellation with ONE MIC actually.

Eck - you need to get a better sample..........
Click to expand...

1 mic phase cancellation? lol

Whats wrong with the sample? It depicts what my OHs are like, cant really do much better a sample.

Eck
 
eraos said:
Your problem might be that they don't want to be panned 100% Left and Right. Try bringing them back in a bit to see if it helps.
Click to expand...

Id expect more phasing with less panning usually.
Ive tried different pannings.

Cheers,
Eck
 
Ethan Winer said:
Exactly, and I'm surprised nobody suggested this as the possible problem earlier. A hollow sound is not only common, but typical in untreated home studios. If you have overheads and a ceiling lower than maybe 16 feet, "early" reflections off the ceiling combine with the direct sound of the kit and create a phasing effect. If the cymbals move around when you hit them, that makes the effect even more noticeable because the peak and null frequencies change.

--Ethan
Click to expand...
The phasing problem (which I think might be there) would probably be from the room reflections.
I don't believe no one noticed that the snare was delayed in each side. :)
Could that maybe be the culprit? Because I made each OH an odd (different) distance away from the snare.

Eck
 
Ethan Winer said:
Exactly, and I'm surprised nobody suggested this as the possible problem earlier. A hollow sound is not only common, but typical in untreated home studios. If you have overheads and a ceiling lower than maybe 16 feet, "early" reflections off the ceiling combine with the direct sound of the kit and create a phasing effect. If the cymbals move around when you hit them, that makes the effect even more noticeable because the peak and null frequencies change.

--Ethan
Click to expand...

I thought that was what I was saying with my first post.
I guess it lost something in the translation from my brain to the print.

Tom
 
Ethan Winer said:
If you have overheads and a ceiling lower than maybe 16 feet, "early" reflections off the ceiling combine with the direct sound of the kit and create a phasing effect.
--Ethan
Click to expand...

What can be done to offset the amount of phasing, without raising the ceiling?
 
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