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Smokepole
New member
Smokerock is a big hit
I'm going to have it engraved on my crackpipe.
I'm going to have it engraved on my crackpipe.
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chessrock
Banned
Velvet Elvis said:
You, because there are no caps on shingles. pppptttttt ! ! !
BTW - those are THE Behringer mics. I had to use electric tape to keep them in the mic thingies.
I though it would be amuzing to take a picture of me with an ovation and like 12 mics surrounding me with no particular rhyme or reason. 
Thought it might impress the locals. I saw it in an issue of Recording mag, once.
Velvet Elvis
Ahh humma humma humma
Yeah... well.... my dad can beat your's up!
So there!
Velvis
(ahhh... only 756 more posts until I crack the 1k mark!)
So there!
Velvis
(ahhh... only 756 more posts until I crack the 1k mark!)
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chessrock
Banned
This is a great thread.
Pass that pipe over this way, Smoke. As if any of us needs it.
Pass that pipe over this way, Smoke. As if any of us needs it.
Velvet Elvis
Ahh humma humma humma
I wonder if we are the fastest growing thread on the bbs yet?
Hmmmm.... let's see... what other non-rack comments can we lurch into....
BTW Chess... your picture would have been more impressive if you would have had a pair of MXL603's or Oktava's BEHIND you, so that you could claim you mix in 5.1 surround
I'm sure the customers just ate it up too right?
Velvet
Hmmmm.... let's see... what other non-rack comments can we lurch into....
BTW Chess... your picture would have been more impressive if you would have had a pair of MXL603's or Oktava's BEHIND you, so that you could claim you mix in 5.1 surround
I'm sure the customers just ate it up too right?
Velvet
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chessrock
Banned
![dudesingingtorock[1].webp](https://img.homerecording.com/attachments/1/1066-b711d958be896d4261887792f32ccf96.jpg?hash=s29nLmyBrZ)
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sjjohnston
New member
Huh?
Here I was just about to agree with Chessrock, and he changed his position.
First -- for the original question, I think the VMP3 output can be connected to something that wants either a -10 or a +4 input (yes, it could be connected to a -10 balanced or unbalanced input or a +4 unbalanced or balanced, if that's what you happen to have). Just adjust the gain and look at the meters on the thing you're connecting it to.
The only limitatation is the amount of gain. The maximum gain is 66dB, so if the signal produced by your mic is less than -62 dBu (.0006 volts), you won't have enough gain to produce a +4 balanced signal. When you connect the VMP3 output to an unbalanced input, you lose about 6 dB (i.e. half the voltage, since you're grounding one leg of the balanced connection), so you'd need a mic signal that's at least -56 dBu (.0012 volts) to produce a +4 unbalanced signal.
According to the manual, the maximum output is +22 dBu (balanced) or +16 dBu (unbalanced), so that's not a practical limitation.
It doesn't "automatically" switch from a nominal +4 to a nominal -10 output when you plug a TS plug into it. It just loses 6 dB (half) of the signal. The difference between +4 dBu and -10 dBV is 11.79 dB (a factor of almost 4).
Second -- on the side issue, which the original poster didn't actually ask about -- when you do have a choice between a +4 or a -10 output (which you sometimes do, particularly when dealing with something that doesn't have a pot to vary gain or to trim the output level): I would have thought the correct approach would be to use -10 when you're plugging the output into something that expects a -10 input, and +4 when plugging into something that expects a +4 input.
Sor far as I cant tell, there shouldn't be any significant difference in the amount of ambient room noise. Say you've put the mic in a room with a singer who's making a 70 dB SPL racket right next to the mic, while there's also a refrigerator making a 45 dB SPL noise (measured at the mic). There's going to a 25 dB signal-to-noise ratio between them, no matter what you do -- at least so long as you don't compress or expand (or gate) the signal (compressing will generally make the signal-to-noise ratio lower, and expanding will make it higher).
If you adjust gain on the VMP3 to produce a signal that peaks at +4 dBu, the ambient noise will be at -21 dBu (.07 volts, if anybody's counting). If you adjust gain on the VMP3 to produce a signal that peaks at -10 dBV, the ambient noise will be at -35 dBV (.018 volts). In the end, on tape or disk or a playing over a speaker, it'll all come out the same.
Caveat: it's possible that the VMP3 compresses the signal somewhat at very high gain settings. I don't know that it does, and it really shouldn't, as long as you're within it's rated limits, but it might. Another caveat: if you crank the gain to produce a +4 signal, you will get more electronic noise from the preamp itself.
Here I was just about to agree with Chessrock, and he changed his position.
First -- for the original question, I think the VMP3 output can be connected to something that wants either a -10 or a +4 input (yes, it could be connected to a -10 balanced or unbalanced input or a +4 unbalanced or balanced, if that's what you happen to have). Just adjust the gain and look at the meters on the thing you're connecting it to.
The only limitatation is the amount of gain. The maximum gain is 66dB, so if the signal produced by your mic is less than -62 dBu (.0006 volts), you won't have enough gain to produce a +4 balanced signal. When you connect the VMP3 output to an unbalanced input, you lose about 6 dB (i.e. half the voltage, since you're grounding one leg of the balanced connection), so you'd need a mic signal that's at least -56 dBu (.0012 volts) to produce a +4 unbalanced signal.
According to the manual, the maximum output is +22 dBu (balanced) or +16 dBu (unbalanced), so that's not a practical limitation.
It doesn't "automatically" switch from a nominal +4 to a nominal -10 output when you plug a TS plug into it. It just loses 6 dB (half) of the signal. The difference between +4 dBu and -10 dBV is 11.79 dB (a factor of almost 4).
Second -- on the side issue, which the original poster didn't actually ask about -- when you do have a choice between a +4 or a -10 output (which you sometimes do, particularly when dealing with something that doesn't have a pot to vary gain or to trim the output level): I would have thought the correct approach would be to use -10 when you're plugging the output into something that expects a -10 input, and +4 when plugging into something that expects a +4 input.
Sor far as I cant tell, there shouldn't be any significant difference in the amount of ambient room noise. Say you've put the mic in a room with a singer who's making a 70 dB SPL racket right next to the mic, while there's also a refrigerator making a 45 dB SPL noise (measured at the mic). There's going to a 25 dB signal-to-noise ratio between them, no matter what you do -- at least so long as you don't compress or expand (or gate) the signal (compressing will generally make the signal-to-noise ratio lower, and expanding will make it higher).
If you adjust gain on the VMP3 to produce a signal that peaks at +4 dBu, the ambient noise will be at -21 dBu (.07 volts, if anybody's counting). If you adjust gain on the VMP3 to produce a signal that peaks at -10 dBV, the ambient noise will be at -35 dBV (.018 volts). In the end, on tape or disk or a playing over a speaker, it'll all come out the same.
Caveat: it's possible that the VMP3 compresses the signal somewhat at very high gain settings. I don't know that it does, and it really shouldn't, as long as you're within it's rated limits, but it might. Another caveat: if you crank the gain to produce a +4 signal, you will get more electronic noise from the preamp itself.
Velvet Elvis
Ahh humma humma humma
Johnston...
We already established most of that... and have somehow managed to move this thread into the netherregions of postings...
Chess.... I can't get your attachment to load.
Velvet
We already established most of that... and have somehow managed to move this thread into the netherregions of postings...
Chess.... I can't get your attachment to load.
Velvet
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chessrock
Banned
Aw, man.
Why did you have to kill my buzz by talking about something relevant to the rack forum, SJ?
Velvet, it's just a picture of some dude playing guitar and singing to a hanging rock (it's supposed to be a binaural deal, but it looks silly)
Why did you have to kill my buzz by talking about something relevant to the rack forum, SJ?
Velvet, it's just a picture of some dude playing guitar and singing to a hanging rock (it's supposed to be a binaural deal, but it looks silly
)
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sjjohnston
New member
Nether regions
Before the nether regions part, I thought someone was actually buying that "automatic" switching rationalization (and maybe even the "ambient noise" musings).
Before the nether regions part, I thought someone was actually buying that "automatic" switching rationalization (and maybe even the "ambient noise" musings).
Velvet Elvis
Ahh humma humma humma
Chess...
I ought to try that with some of my clients... Just let them sing into a rock. I'd bet the end result would sound better
You know the type of client... send them off to the vocal booth... set the autotune to max... press record... turn the control room monitors off... take a little nap while they sing their rendition of Wind Beneath My Wings.... reggae style
And then have the producer tell you it was the best performance EVER
Velvet
I ought to try that with some of my clients... Just let them sing into a rock. I'd bet the end result would sound better
You know the type of client... send them off to the vocal booth... set the autotune to max... press record... turn the control room monitors off... take a little nap while they sing their rendition of Wind Beneath My Wings.... reggae style
And then have the producer tell you it was the best performance EVER
Velvet
Velvet Elvis
Ahh humma humma humma
SJ...
Someone here posted that the manual states that it switched between -10 and +4 based on the cable (which a switching jack would certainly be capable of)... but other than that, they ambient noise things was never a go
Velvet
Someone here posted that the manual states that it switched between -10 and +4 based on the cable (which a switching jack would certainly be capable of)... but other than that, they ambient noise things was never a go
Velvet
C
chessrock
Banned
Velvet Elvis said:take a little nap while they sing their rendition of Wind Beneath My Wings.... reggae style
Shhh. Don't give the guys in the mp3 clinic any ideas.
Velvet Elvis
Ahh humma humma humma
oh man... you're right...
Hey... did I ever tell you you're my hero? Everything I wish that I could be?
bwahahahahahahahahaahah
I once thought there was wind beneath my wings... turned out to be gas.
Velvet
Hey... did I ever tell you you're my hero? Everything I wish that I could be?
bwahahahahahahahahaahah
I once thought there was wind beneath my wings... turned out to be gas.
Velvet
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Smokepole
New member
You are the wind between my cheeks?
Velvet Elvis
Ahh humma humma humma
Now THAT was funny.
Velvet
Velvet
darrin_h2000
Banned
I might seem crazy but making something more sensitive has an effect on noise that can exist like an Air conditioner for example. Yo may not hear it yourself, you may not have it on your track at -10 but at +4 Its more likely to get there.
Ambiant noise is noise not room treatments, I dont Know what gave you the Idea that room treatments have anything to do with noise.heck I have pads on my pre that will cut 20db.
Ambiant noise is noise not room treatments, I dont Know what gave you the Idea that room treatments have anything to do with noise.heck I have pads on my pre that will cut 20db.
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littledog
New member
Darrin,
Whether you realize it or not, SJJ answered your point. Of course, some of us immediately go into a coma as soon as a formula or some math is introduced into an argument, so let me reiterate:
Yes, you are right. The ambient noise does go up when you change -10 to +4. But so does the rest of the signal. The point is, as SJJ said, the RATIO of signal to noise stays exactly the same.
So before the music starts, you suddenly hear your furnace or refrigerator way louder than it was at (-10). Except that then the music comes in BLASTING the shit out of your speakers and ears, until you scramble over and turn down your master volume. Now, after wiping away the blood from your eardrums, go back and start the track again with the volume remaining in it's turned down position. Wonder of wonders, now your home appliances aren't any more intrusive than when you listened to them at -10! This is because the S/N ratio doesn't change.
See, that wasn't so hard! Sorry about your eardrums - with any luck the damage won't be permanent!
Whether you realize it or not, SJJ answered your point. Of course, some of us immediately go into a coma as soon as a formula or some math is introduced into an argument, so let me reiterate:
Yes, you are right. The ambient noise does go up when you change -10 to +4. But so does the rest of the signal. The point is, as SJJ said, the RATIO of signal to noise stays exactly the same.
So before the music starts, you suddenly hear your furnace or refrigerator way louder than it was at (-10). Except that then the music comes in BLASTING the shit out of your speakers and ears, until you scramble over and turn down your master volume. Now, after wiping away the blood from your eardrums, go back and start the track again with the volume remaining in it's turned down position. Wonder of wonders, now your home appliances aren't any more intrusive than when you listened to them at -10! This is because the S/N ratio doesn't change.
See, that wasn't so hard! Sorry about your eardrums - with any luck the damage won't be permanent!
HangDawg
bUnGhOlIo
You guys still crack me up. Only 975 more. Weeehaaaww
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The Axis
Member
dBu, dBV, dBa, or dBm ?