Outboards (Compressors, pres. etc) vs. Computer Software

W

Wolfman140

New member
Hey everyone,
Just a quick general question. Is it true that outboard stuff is usually better quality than internal software fx? Example...An outboard compressor...Does it work better than the compressor in your program? Why or why not and is it true for all FX.

Also, does an outboard mic pre-amp separate from the board preamp make the signal sound better or something? Thanks a bundle!
-Kevin
 
Basically, software processors and FX are only trying to emulate what the classic hardware devices do. Some of them are coming close, but it's still not the same as having the real mccoy.

As for the preamps, well, that depends on what boards and what stand-alones you are talking about.
 
In general, the software doesn't quite live up to the hardware. However, there is some tradeoff. You could buy a piece of hardware for $2000, or buy the software for one fifth of that and you would have more than just one instance (channel) of it by using the software. Sure it doesn't sound as good, but still is very useful.

To me it's kind of like Taco Bell. I love Taco Bell, I just don't consider mexican dining.
 
Rockin

Thanks guys, 'specially you Chess you were most helpful. Yeah I figured as much about it all...In my cass I'll have only a Behringer UB1202 (yes, rockin' I know) so a mic preamp would probably be better in that situation. Anyone got any comments about the Behringer compressor that runs for $100? (Forgot the name)

-Kevin
 
The Behringer comps are one of the very few Behringer items thats actually worth as much or more than what you pay for it. Still not the greatest, but surprisingly usable and worth the pocket change they cost:)
 
I heard their midi pedal is awesome too. oh and don't forget their v-amp pro. for the price, they are both very good deals. I wouldn't buy anything else from them tho.
 
You can do a lot more for less w/ a PC. You can buy a UAD1 card for 300-400 and have some great plugins. Do they sound like the orginals that 2000.00 a pop no. Do I know what the orignals sound like. No. Do you? Will the people you record. No. But will you get some very professional results. Yes.

Get you some discent mics and pres. Then do your worl via DAW.

You will always need some nice pres to get a clean sound. I use a Soundcraft M8 whitch gives me 8 nice pres and then I've got 2 Joemeek 3Qs which are very nice for the money. If your on a budget the 3Q is the way to go. I assume you have a discent audio card like 2496 or so. If you need more In/outs pick up a Motu 2408II off ebay for $300.00 or so.

Hope this helps
 
Deepwater,
Basically all I have on my comp is a Soundblaster Audigy 2 card. I'm looking into either getting an Mbox (the one from musicians friend for 100 bucks more actually comes with a bundle of extra quality plugins) or a used Digi 001 off of Ebay. I suppose the plugins are less expensive...but have you seen the price of some of that shit? One bundle of plugins they call the "Professional Standard" is like $7000...nuts.

So that being said...the Mbox has two Focusrite pre amps in it so I figured that if I got that I wouldn't need more pre amps right now (because yes I am on a poor college student's budget). If I got the Digi 001 I would prolly get a single track but higher quality pre/EQ...like the Joe Meek for example. So I have no idea what kind of sound card you were talking about by the way. :-)

-Kevin
 
I have actually tried T-racks a few times and I didn't really like it. I still much prefer the Waves master bundle.
 
Dude you don't have to have Wave. You can get Cakewalk or Sonar for around $300.00 and a UAD1 card for $300.00 add do some very nice stuff. you can pick up T-rack for a few hundered. Add a $200.00 soundcard in there and for under $1000.00 or right at it you have a nice setup. The m-audio stuff is great.
 
Waves Master Bundle is only $675 including shipping at Sweetwater. Deepwater is right, waves is not a necessity. However, my reply was concerning mastering. In my opinion, the Waves master bundle is much nicer for MASTERING than the stock Sonar stuff, the UAD, or T-Racks. The L2 is still the most natural sounding and effective brick wall limiter in the native arena. Also, the Linear Phase EQ sounds great and the Linear multiband compressor is also much nicer than all the stock stuff that comes in applications. I do have a UAD card so I am also familiar with that and have used T-Racks on several occasions. Because of this, I do feel that my opinion has some sort of foundation (even though it is just that, an opinion).

There are always cheaper ways to go, like the way that Deepwater mentioned above. However, I can not use a $200 soundcard. My DAW consists of 26 inputs and 26 outputs. Most of the time I only need between 16 and 20 inputs and 2 outputs though. But on somedays I max it out. And yes, the M Audio stuff is great.....if you just need a basic setup that functions well. If you need something with more I/O and decent sounding converters.....then M Audio just isn't an option.

In the end, even with all of the cool gear I have at my disposal now, I still find that my RME soundcard and my Waves bundles were two of the best purchases I have ever made.
 
um.. ok. wait.

yea, they sound different. like more different than you think. they both are pretty useful.

if you are looking at them in terms of strict fidelity, software plug-ins offer great price/performance. so they work well for invisible compression/limiting, eqs can be nice as well. plug ins also seem to do well for EXTREME effects. effects that seem really top level... like if you want to run the entire mix thru a flanger. you dont really hear much BETWEEN a plug in and the sound. which has its uses.

if you are looking at color, outboard works pretty well for that. outboard gear tends to give you more "information" in sort of a strict mathmatical sense. you hear the effect, you hear the amp stages, you hear all that other stuff. its complex, dynamic, chaotic. which is cool cause you can use that to locate that effect in some sort of aural imagined space.

outboard gear tends to be more "designed" as well. like tweaked here and there to get you closer to an overall sound ideal, as opposed to just giving you a strict effect. like really nice outboard gear will give you a sweet sounding ampstage at the output, or maybe a nice thick sounding transformer, or something like that.

also, factor in that the different interfaces produce in YOU very different work habits. the tactile/visual connection between box with knobs and human is different from the computer/human connection. so, you will HEAR things differently, you will work differently.

oh and artifacts... plug in artifacts are VERY different from analog artifacts. these things are important too. digital artifacts can be more obtrusive. again, they sound more "top level" to me. struggling analog gear in a mix kinda moves to the back of a mix whereas struggling digital stuff moves to the front, at least to my ears. so digital plug ins are useful for throwing things out front, like really far out front. like so far out front that you could trick listeners into thinking that their stereos are broken.

here is another way i look at it, in terms of aural soundscape. you have these levels in your recording: (with lots of grey in between)

1. room events. what is happening "in the room" with the musicians.

2. mix levels. what is happening "at the board"

3. recorder/recording medium level. what is happening "on the face of the medium".

all the events on your recording on playback fall somewhere in there. digital is very good at getting you closer to number 3. analog is good at moving things to lower numbers.

so during mixing, you can exploit this soundscape. if you want something to really pop out, even at low volumes... some bitreduction plug in will absolutely PASTE that element to the front of the mix (an extreme example).

if you have something you want to throw back, like a software synth that just sounds like it comes from another planet from the rest of the recording, run it through a guitar pedal. or if you really want to send it WAY back, amp it and mic the amp.

so, you know, use both and have fun. boy that was like a rant. or sometin
 
Like what Xstatic said.

You really need to look at what you need for In/Out and build from there. If you need more than 2-4 than look at Motu or something. I track with an HD24 and dump everything to my PC via fireport. I only have a two channel 24/96 card for monitoring with. Which works great. When I started out I was buying this and that and ended up with a lot of equipment I did not need. Now I carefull look at what I'm buying and what I'll use it for. Like now I need a stereo pair of mics. I'm looking at the 603s and NT5 among others. What ever I buy I want to be able to get a lot of use out of it now and in the furture. I also try and buy things like Rode that have a good resale value if I do want to part with it.
 
Deepwater, if you add an RME Hammerfall you can use your HD24 as a converter and record straight into your DAW. Not only that, but if you have an analog console as well, you can send the analog outs from the HD24 to your console for latency free monitoring, while sending the ADAT optical signals straight to the DAW via the Hammerfall and you can skip the whole bounce phase (which is so slow:( ) You don't ever have to even hit record on your HD24:)
 
Where's a good place to get the RME Hammerfall? I track with HD24 using my Soundcraft M8 (very nice pres) and DDX3216. After I've done my track I hook up the fireport and dump everything into my DAW. The fireport blazing fast. Whith the RME I would need to record on my DAW while tracking or monitoring on my HD24 which could come in very handy and I never thought of that.

Xstatic - If I did that via the RME would I have time delay problem while montoring out my 24/96 or the RME? Or would i need to monitor from the HD24.
 
the thracks you are recording would go right out the analog outs (no delay) to whatever mixer you want. The already recorded tracks would come right off of the DAW out your soundcard. What this allows you to do is record graphiocally as well as audibly. You can see peaks, see other waveforms to lock in better timing, you can visually set locate and punch in/out points and move around with a mouse instead of having to preset locate points. You can get the RME at Sweetwater. Also, If you don't need to actually record more than 16 tracks simultaneously, you can buy a smaller version. Also, by recording straight to your DAW its a little easier to switch the same input to a new track.
 
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