out of phase kick???

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thajeremy

thajeremy

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I just had my first problem (that i know of) with something being out of phase. At least as far as my understanding of what out of phase means. Last night I was working on some drum tracks for a friend. I didnt notice so much last night but this morning when i woke and started playing around with the tracks a little, i noticed that there was a track slightly out of sync with the rest of them. It was the kick track. I also remembered that the kick had a kinda funny sound last night but I didnt worry about it too much thinking it was just because of my ears not being in the best of shape since i just had a drummer banging away. After a half an hour or so of trying to shift the kick track until it lined up, i gave up on that idea. Im definatly no drummer, but I started playing around with the kit a little. Moving mics and stuff. I finally took the snare mic (EV Cobalt C04) and put it in the kick along with the Beta 52 and played around a little. I went back to my computer and played the tracks back and what do i find? The beta sounded like $H!T. Now...the C04 didnt sound good as a kick mic, but at least it was in sync with the rest of the tracks. So now that gets me thinking. What would happen if i switched the cables? Well...I didnt know either so I did it and wouldnt you know it. All of a sudden the beta sounded like a beta again and the C04 sounded even worse than before...and yes...out of sync.

I also found out during this little experiment that the C04 doesn't make the greatest snare mic either (wonder what it would be good for). While the C04 was in the kick, I moved the ATM29HE over from the floor tom (since I wouldnt be playing that drum during my test anyway) and put it on the snare...WOW...what a differance that made on the snare.

So anyway...would a bad cable cause the tracks to be out of phase or does it just mean that I had a bad cable and no phase problems?

thanks for the read...
Jeremy
 
Well I may be misunderstanding, but since it changed like that when you switched the cables it sounds to me like that channel is having a problem. Maybe it's the cable (if it's wired wrong it could be giving you reverse polarity). You could try a whole different cable and see if that is the problem.

You could always try fliping the polarity if you have that option, or if you're on a DAW you could just zoom in and line up the tracks. Otherwise you may have to exeriment more with mic placement.
 
Well..i figured out that it was a bad cable. like i said, i switched everything and the problem left that channel and went to another channel all together. So I switched them back and replaced the kick mic with a whole new cable and everything was fine. I guess my question is, would this problem be considered "out of phase" or just simply "a bad cable".
 
Sounds like a bad cable. Phase problems occur when the positioning of mics is such that certain frequencies cancel. It isn't the same as "out of sync".
 
there can be out of phase XLRs, though. if the L and the R have been wired to the opposite's place, poof, it's out of phase. BUT they don't do this to themselves, someone has to open it up and resolder it. I's an easy fix if you want a top side bottom side snare but don't have a pre to flip the phase of the bottom one.
 
Some cables are just wired backwards to begin with.

If that was the case, you can just use the "reverse polarity" function on your DAW (if you have one) and it should all be well and good.
Still, it shouldn't sound like a delay - rather that the bass in the kick drum gets weaker when the kick track and anything else picking up the kick (ie overheads) are playing at the same time.

Phase-aligning a track is pretty easy in modern programs, too. Just zoom way the hell in on the initial attack of a kick hit. Drag the kick track so that the major "up" and "down" areas of the waveform align exactly with the "up" and "down" areas you see on the overhead tracks. You should only need to move it a tiny bit.
 
no, i'm pretty sure that when he says that the recording is out-of-synch temporally, its not due to a phase problem or a cable with reversed polarity.
 
I was just commenting on that phase reverse cables are around. the problem certainly doesn't sound like it's phase. phase generally means it sounds like cardboard, not out of sync (or that's the way I hear severe phase problems, I'm no expert tho)
 
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