out here in the fields....

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fat_fleet

fat_fleet

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i'm soliciting recommendations for a decent compact/portable 4 or 8-track recorder which i can use to make field recordings out in the world. i would then like to dump what i've recorded into my digital recorder at home for my own devious ends...
big plusses would be battery power, small size, simulteneous outs (dedicated outs for each recorded track may be a little much to ask for, i realize, but it never hurts to ask), maybe even phantom power (?).
only one i've really looked at so far is the tascam dp-004. anything else out there that might suit my needs?
 
I clicked on this thread, hoping you were fighting for your meals.

You disappointed me.
 
Oh, don't be such a baba, O'Reilly!

Fleet, sorry, I have no recommendations for you. I just had to add to the lyrical reference theme.

Who's next?

G.
 
Dumping into your recorder may be a problem, unless your recorder is USB enabled. If you don't, you have to use a line out with a stereo mix, and you go through a whole second layer of D-A conversion, running the signal through the (usually not-so-hot) preamps of a microrecorder,-again. I considered DP004, but was annoyed by the lack of a backlight, which sucks for working at night outdoors or in a club. I considered Zoom H4, which is more versatile, but review after review said the buttons sucked, and that it was cheaply made, fragile, and unreliable. I finally settled on Zoom H4n, which is an obvious attempt to correct the problems with the H4. Like all microrecorders, it has limitations, but they are ones I can work around.

Upsides: While 4-track recording is done in 16bit/44.1kHz, stereo recording can be done in 24bit/96kHz
built in stereo mics, and 2 XLR/1/4" combijacks with phantom power
exports WAV. files or MP3 in a variety of resolutions, in stereo mode. 4 track is only WAV., 16bit/44.1kHz
A broad array of FX, including compression with all the parameters,editable reverb, amp modeling, etc. Mostly, these can only be used in 4 track mode, although the stereo mode does have some rudimentary compression presets.
Can be used as a computer interface, where it switches to USB power, and records directly to included Cubase software, or whatever DAW you use.
It's small, easy to use, and is *much* better built than its predecessor.
It'll run for over 12 hours on a pair of Lithium AA's, 6 hours in stereo on Alkalines, about 4 hours in stereo on 2500mAh rechargeables.
The screen is easy to read, and well lit.
It also has a 3.5mm stereo jack for stereo mics, which turns off the onboard mics, and can provide plugin power.
It supports up to 32GB SD cards, which is *a lot* of recording time.

Downsides:

I really wish I could use 24bit/96kHz in 4 track mode, and the FX in stereo mode.

The only analog out is a stereo minijack (3.5mm), which is also the headphone jack, so you can't run a line out and monitor in headphones simultaneously, without additional equipment.

In stereo mode, the L/R mic inputs are panned hard L/R, which is hardwired. You can change that once its in the computer, but you only get panning in 4-track mode.

Overall, in spite of its limitations, I think the H4n is the best bang for the buck. It's about $350, but if you spook around on ebay, you can find deals where you get additional accessories for the same price. The included accessories are:
Plastic case
wind screen
USB cable
1GB SD card

For $350 on ebay, I got mine new, with the standard accessories, plus:

16GB SD card
flexible tripod
remote control card (reduces handling noise for field applications, or for recording yourself)
handle/mic stand adaptor (can be used as a handle in the field,greatly reducing handling noise, or slips securely into a standard mic clip.)

Hope you find the machine that fits your needs best-Richie
 
exporting .wav files would give it data compatability with the YamahaAW16G, no?
 
I think no. I'm not familiar with the AW16G, but I just read the specs on it. It looks like it has its own proprietary file system, and even though it *does* have optical stereo I/O (I think they mean optical S/PDIF), I see no evidence that the thing can read WAV. files. I could be wrong on that. And- don't even ask me what would be involved in transferring from a USB 2.0 to optical S/PDIF. Calling all geeks... As near as I can tell, the Yamaha's ability to transfer files to and from *any* computer is quite limited. There may be another way, though. We are mostly talking about stereo files, not 18 separate tracks. You could use a CD recorder or any decent computer, burn to CD-R, and then import the files via the CD-R drive in the Yamaha, if it has a CD capture function. I think the Yamaha can do that. For 4 tracks, you'd have to do two CD's and sink them manually. For stereo files , it should be pretty simple. You only get 16bit/44.1kHz, but what the hell? File transferred. The better your CD-ROM is, the better it will work, and for critical track transfers, I'd use good CDR's. - Richie
 
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ah. see, although the AW16G lacks USB connectivity, i had read (mistakenly?) that it is capable of both reading and writing track data as .wav files via the CD-R drive. i've never tried it and could be wrong. however it does definitely have a CD capture function, so i guess what you're suggesting is that transfering from the Zoom to the AW16G in this manner would eliminate any further D-A conversion (??)

(please forgive my technical ineptitude)
 
Essentially correct. However, if what you say is true, you could upload the WAV files to a PC, burn the files to disc, and import at the highest bit depth and resolution supported by the Yamaha,, which is likely to be more like 24bit/96kHz. In the end, you might end up using 16bit/44.1kHz anyway, because you want it to end up on a CD. That would be pretty good, if it works. Try it. Just burn a few short WAV files onto disc, and see if you can get the Yammy to eat them. If it does, you're all set. All files transferred with only one conversion. Admittedly, the little Zoom is no Lucid, but it's a pretty good field recorder.-Richie
 
^^^NYMorningstar, i can just see myself lugging that thing out to some meadow with a 1000' extension cord to record 40 seconds of wind chimes.
thanks though.
on a somewhat related note, i looked into the tascam 2488 (not neo) about a year ago and was put off by consistently terrible reviews, including one web page created by an angry (and possibly crazy) consumer containing a long rant, links to other bad reviews, and accusations against a TASCAM conspiracy bent on keeping his opinion off the internet.

Richie, the Zoom sounds right up my alley, but what is this Lucid you mentioned? i tried googling it without much luck, but i'm guessing it's some kind of firewire PC interface thingy. if so, no need to elaborate on it too much as i'm pretty much looking for something portable right now.
thanks again.
 
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fat_fleet said:
including one web page created by an angry (and possibly crazy) consumer containing a long rant, links to other bad reviews, and accusations against a TASCAM conspiracy bent on keeping his opinion off the internet.
Click to expand...
Internet rule #15: 'Net opinions by posted someone with an axe to grind usually have as about as much to do with the truth as your average National Enquirer article.

Internet rule #17: The more likely the conspiracy in the author's mind, the less credibility the entirety of the author's words have.

G.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
Internet rule #15: 'Net opinions by posted someone with an axe to grind usually have as about as much to do with the truth as your average National Enquirer article.

Internet rule #17: The more likely the conspiracy in the author's mind, the less credibility the entirety of the author's words have.
Click to expand...


both true, but there's also this little thing called internet rule #16: 'if you hear the same thing from dozens of sources, chances are there's some truth to it.' ...and there are dozens and dozens of reviews out there uniformly panning this machine, citing bugs, freeze-ups, crashes, data-loss, etc. i've never seen as many bad reviews for any other machine i personally investigated. they're still out there if you want to check for yourself.

seriously though, i'd like to hear from some satisfied 2488 customers because it truly does sound almost too good to be true at a MSR of around $800.
 
Yo Fat_Fleet! Sorry for being obscure-

Lucid builds "real men's" A-D/D-A convertors, with the sticker shock included:

http://mercenary.com/lucid-88192.html

And of course, you could mix in the Zoom as well, but why, when your Yamaha, or a real computer, offers more flexibility? Your understanding, though, is correct, that I think you will benefit from putting the data through as few A-D/D-A conversions as possible, and involving the smallest number possible of mediocre preamps. If that wasn't an issue, you would just run a left and right line out from the Zoom to the Yamaha, and record on 2 tracks in real time. My guess is that that would work, but wouldn't do great things for your noise floor.-Richie
 
fat_fleet said:
^^^NYMorningstar, I can just see myself lugging that thing out to some meadow with a 1000' extension cord to record 40 seconds of wind chimes.
Click to expand...
Sorry when I read out in the field I thought you meant out in bars and lounges. I didn't know you meant literally a field:eek:
Anyhow the Zoom is a great option for that. My daughter uses one and loves it.

As far as the Tascam 2488 goes...When I bought one I took it home and it wouldn't work out of the box. I took it back and we ordered a replacement and they no longer made them so I agreed to try the Neo and its been flawless. I'm just starting to use the mixing and mastering in the Neo because I've been using SX3 and wavelab. It's a little hard to get used to as is everything else but it seems to be coming along ok.
 
fat_fleet said:
internet rule #16: 'if you hear the same thing from dozens of sources, chances are there's some truth to it.'
Click to expand...
But considering Internet rule #1: False information travels faster on the Internet than greased lightning, and about three times faster thatn the truth; Internet rule #2: That everybody has an opinion and believes their opinion is just as informed as anybody else's, even when it isn't; and Internet rule #3: That because of Internet rules #1 and #2, one has to know the source's track record and reputation before they can be trusted any further than you can spit. Walter Cronkite may have just died yesyerday, but his ethic of checking independent sources died the day the Internet 2.0 hit the scene.

Look, I have no idea what the deal is with the Tascam 2488, but I also admit that I don't. A rare thing on internet 2.0. I also know that "dozens of [internet] sources" in and of itself is zero indication of reliability. Just spend some time on this BBS and you'll find out just how many pervasive myths and untruths "dozens of sources" or even "thousands of sources" honestly swear by.

All I know is that when someone starts talking "conspiracy" against them personally on the Internet, that they either are too young to know better, or idiots, or still have the needle dangling from their arm.

G.
 
SSGlen, i hear ya. unfortunately i did not have time to plug in and try every digital recorder out there before settling on one (i'm just a hobbyist and have to work and stuff) and internet reviews do go a long way. obviously there are whack jobs out there, but that's why you read about 50 reviews. if machine A has 40 lousy reviews and 10 good ones and machine B has 48 good reviews and 2 bad ones that seem to come from fruitcakes, it's a pretty safe bet that machine B is better than machine A. also i prefer to think misinformation only travels 1.5x as fast as the truth. i'm an optimist ;).
also- Walter Cronkite is dead?!?! where have i been?

NYMorningstar- i just read my original post and i guess i did not make it entirely clear what i wanted the recorder for. as for the neo, if you have samples of anything you've done on it, i would be interested to hear them if they're already online and it's not too much of a hassle. like i mentioned, i did look into it once because it seems to do alot for the price. maybe the neo fixed some of the alleged problems with the 2488(?)

Richie- think i'm sold on the Zoom. as for the $2500 Lucid AD-DA converter, it definitely exceeds my needs at this time. plus mrs. fat_fleet would have a shitfit! :)
 
I recorded this off a balcony of a large hall with 2 Nt5's and an LDC on a Tascam neo. I used the neo to feed the PA too and the mics picked up a little of that but I used only the Tascam pre's and it's pretty darn transparent. No editing was done.
http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?id=18327
 
I'm shaking down the H4n function by function, and I'll probably post more on it after a few months of crunch time. I agree, the Neo does a lot for its price. That's always a little bit of a red flag for me, because something has to give. I wish I had a full scale remote recorder with it's capabilities. I use a Roland VS1824CD for that kind of work, and it is clearly obsolete by the standards of the neo, and cost quite a bit more, in it's day. That's why I understand your Yamaha, I think the two machines share similar obsolete technology.-Richie
 
fat_fleet said:
SSGlen, i hear ya. unfortunately i did not have time to plug in and try every digital recorder out there before settling on one (i'm just a hobbyist and have to work and stuff) and internet reviews do go a long way. obviously there are whack jobs out there, but that's why you read about 50 reviews. if machine A has 40 lousy reviews and 10 good ones and machine B has 48 good reviews and 2 bad ones that seem to come from fruitcakes, it's a pretty safe bet that machine B is better than machine A. also i prefer to think misinformation only travels 1.5x as fast as the truth. i'm an optimist ;).
also- Walter Cronkite is dead?!?! where have i been?
Click to expand...
LOL, he just passed yesterday evening. You were probably too focused on looking into portable recorders over the past 24 hours to have caught it yet. Yeah, ironically he dies right in the middle of the 40th anniversary of the Apollo 11 mission (which, according to the Internet, was faked ;) :rolleyes: :D)

Yeah, you have good points as well; I wasn't sure you were talking about legitimate reviews from reliable sources or just the self-perpeuating "common wisdom" of internet lore and music store sales associates.

It looks like you're zooming in on the Zoom, which is cool. If you have a laptop with a Firewire jack, and you're looking for higher quality sound and plenty of room for expansion w/o early obsolescence in-studio or in the field, you might want to look at something like the MOTU Traveller in conjunction with your laptop. An added advantage is you wouldn't need to do any bouncing from your recorder to a computer, your laptop is the recorder, and you can then do it all - mixing, editing, burning, etc. right there in the one PC.

G.
 
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