Organics vs. MDI

[kcearl]

Ouch... I bet you could poll that and you'd get a different point of view haha. Yes, it's a cheaper and "entry" level type of Drum Sampling software, but EVERYONE I've talked to adores the program. I don't use it much due to the fact that it's more of a songwriting/project based program, IMHO, but none the less very useful

everyone minus one then so far

 

[notredamer0789]

fair enough

 

[notredamer0789]

the laughing is not sarcastic btw, more friendly lol

...I didn't know the little green guy would go over the top though

 

[benherron.rrr]

everyone minus one then so far

Ive just been trying out BFD2 today, Its awsome, nearly got overly exited when I worked out that I can record the parts right into protools without haveing to bounce them. Plain and simple its the most convincing right out of the mic kit ive tried. EZdrummer and what not, are easy as as hell load it up and your done, but lack any real charecter

 

[kcearl]

the laughing is not sarcastic btw, more friendly lol

...I didn't know the little green guy would go over the top though

yeah they need a lite version like

BTW I dont have EZ drummer but I have spotted it when Ive heard it..or thought I have, but that could be the laziness of the user..I have SD2 and the articulation and flexibility is superb..I want to by a midi kit just to learn how to bang them out

I can get straight beats sounding pretty good on my MPD24 but my fills are garbage..I have to use bastardised midi files or paint them in with amouse..I really admire drummers now, its a damned hard instrument when I thought it would be the most simple to understand

forget about weird timing though..I havent a clue, only just started experimenting with triplets

 

[kcearl]

Ive just been trying out BFD2 today, Its awsome, nearly got overly exited when I worked out that I can record the parts right into protools without haveing to bounce them. Plain and simple its the most convincing right out of the mic kit ive tried. EZdrummer and what not, are easy as as hell load it up and your done, but lack any real charecter

BFD2 looks good, I think their eco might be more flexible than EZ, not sure though..I have the Abbey Road 70's kit for kontakt...the sounds on it are excellent just a pita to split out to separate channels in the DAW

 

[notredamer0789]

Thats a perfect laughing avatar haha. Yeah EZD is cool if you're (like I was saying) a songwriter looking for a beat to play to, yet it can be pretty powerful, obviously SD KILLS it though, I've played/had both. Yeah, I'm terrible with MIDI drums, thankfully I don't have to do that with recording haha. I just use the grooves if I'm messin' with it.

 

[benherron.rrr]

I used to think that drums was about hiting things, but the timing has to be so precise, if it aint it sticks out like a sore thumb, things you can get away with a little with piano and guitar.
I knew a guy who was an amazing drummer, as in sample perfect.
I was hooked on addictive drums, but started playing with BFD2 cause a guy im working with uses it. Alot of people say its a little crap cause you actually have to mix it. But I love that fact, the work deffinatly pays off

 

[grimtraveller]

So my question to you guys is... what do you think about recording, mixing, editing, producing MIDI WITH Organics? Do you prefer all organic instruments or more MIDI for projects? Is it just a great filler to make songs sound better, or do you guys think it makes some things sound "fake"?

Some virtual instruments sound utterly fake. But I say that with a rider - when I first came across them, I was so excited at their mere existence that I used them in a way that on reflection was pretty amateurish and not mixed well. So much so that I'm going to remix alot of those songs.
But there is a way to use them and as I use real guitars, bass, sax, flute, percussion, clarinet, drums, mandolin, vocals, etc, the virtuals have a part to play but I find they need to be mixed in in a less obvious way. I see them as a supplement to what's going on. Or at least, I do now.
And for me, it's crucial when using them to take on the mind of the player of that instrument. What I mean is, if I'm playing a sampled trombone, for instance, I think and play like a trombonist, with spacings and intervals, not like a keyboardist trying to emulate a trombone.
They can work really well. Recently, I worked on a friend's song and when we'd done guitar and her vocal, I put some flute on and when I played it for her the following week, she was keen to know what the flautist thought of her song !

 

[grimtraveller]

and to help support musicians whos jobs will inevitably be lost by the advancment in ultra realistic VI's

I feel no guilt whatsoever........There isn't a single musician on this planet that is going to lose work because I use a virtual instrument ! They said that with the invention of the mellotron and the onset of the synthesizer. But if I knew people that played the instruments that I would use as virtuals, I'd use their playing skills like a shot. Also, I play them in real time.

But instrument replacement is not the only use for MIDI. It can be used to create new sounds, unusual sonic landscapes and different ways of presenting material. Instead of imitating other instruments, you use it as an instrument in its own right.

I remember in the years that I was looking into computer music when I was thinking of going diji, this was a point that came up, that VSTis gave you the option of creating soundscapes that didn't exist, like 'bowed flutes' or 'strummed saxophones' or whatever and initially, this seemed attractive to me.
But once I bought some I soon concluded that the reason I got them in the first place was because I liked the sounds of particular instruments. I wasn't interested in making a violin sound like a wahoojabauun or a french horn sound like a ponarishaa.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

the virtuals have a part to play but I find they need to be mixed in in a less obvious way. I see them as a supplement to what's going on.

A good point. There are some really nice sounding strings and horns out there, for example, but I wouldn't want to use them for lead parts. I don't care how good a trumpet sample sounds, if you want a lead part, if you don't have a real trumpet player playing a real trumpet, it just doesn't sound quite real just yet. Maybe in another couple of years they'll have the technology for that down, because the stuff today is a whole lot better than it was just a couple of years ago in that regard, so they're getting there, but for now, that stuff rocks for accompaniment and accent parts, but just can't replace a human for lead.

G.

 

[gecko zzed]

Part of the secret of getting acceptable midi replications of real instruments is to know how to play the instrument in the first place. That knowledge gives you insight on how to manipulate the midi. For example, if you play midi strings the way you would play a piano, you mostly get a dense mess.

 

[notredamer0789]

Part of the secret of getting acceptable midi replications of real instruments is to know how to play the instrument in the first place. That knowledge gives you insight on how to manipulate the midi. For example, if you play midi strings the way you would play a piano, you mostly get a dense mess.

Absolutely right!

 

[kcearl]

yeah do not to attempt to put a cello midi part in your song until you have bought a cello and learned how to play it


hang on just mic that cello instead..perfect sense!

Im off to buy a timpani..brb

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

You don't have to buy a cello and learn to play it to know that if you try using a cello sound to fill a lead guitar riff with the normal ADSR of a Telecaster, that it probably won't sound right; no more than using drum triggers and envelopes to fire saxophone samples will sound right. The point is, you don't want to use a sampled sound to fill a part that just wouldn't work with the real thing.

Yeah, there can be some exceptions, but in general, trying to "play" a MIDI instrument in a way that really can't be done with that instrument for real often results is a bad sound.

G.

 

[kcearl]

my new timpani's a beaut...oboe next

 

[Guitargodgt]

Dang three pages.

My only .02 on this subject is drum programming, which seems to be pretty wide spread in heavier genres at the moment.

I think the reason why people dislike it is because most people do it like this:

Instead of doing it like this:

The first is all at the same velocity, it's maxed (127), and it's quantized to the grid HARD. The second is none of those things, because it was played by a person on an e kit. Anything can be abused, you can edit guitars so they don't sound right anymore, you can auto tune a voice to death etc...

It's all in it's use, not the tools themselves.

 

[Greg_L]

[
Regarding the rest of your post, I don't make music for other musicians, cause they're usually poor. I make music for the mall kids, cause they have the money.
...

I make music for myself. I win.

 

[suprstar]

I used to think that drums was about hiting things, but the timing has to be so precise, if it aint it sticks out like a sore thumb, things you can get away with a little with piano and guitar.

lol as a guitarist, that's a crock.. Timing on ANY instrument is critical, not just for drums.

 

[Farview]

I make music for myself. I win.

Then you must have another job. No one I know can afford to pay themselves all that much for very long.