Order CDs vs. burn my own CD-Rs - a problem of CD player compatibility

  • Thread starter Thread starter shmaller
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shmaller

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Hi all,

I'm finishing up mixing my album (woohoo!!!!) and am starting to think about physical media distribution. I wanted to burn a test CD as a mix test / mastering step, and I'd love to give a few demo CDs away. So I bought a CD drive and some CD-Rs... but my Technics CD player can't read the CD I burned.

This is half question and half gripe, but, is there any way to work around the "magic" of a commercially-produced CD vs. what I can burn myself on a CD drive and a stack of blank CD-Rs?

(I expect the answer is No. But I'm a member of this website, so naturally I'm very skeptical of, "my super-special commercial CDs have a magic sauce you have to pay $xxx to access, can't do it at home, sorry!")

It sure would save me a lot of cash to burn them myself, but I don't want to risk selling someone a CD that their player can't play when they get home.

So... what's the difference?

I burned the CD by:
1. Open Reaper.
2. Load my songs in (44.1 kHz, 16-bit) and arrange them on separate tracks, one after the other, with markers denoting the end of one song and start of another, with song titles.
3. Render 'Audio CD Image (CUE/BIN format)' and click "Burn CD when finished". The preview of the CD data looked good, correct song titles, order, and lengths.
4. Pop into my Technics CD player... and watch it spin forever! no tunes!

I see I can create a DDP file as well... but honestly I don't know what that is or if it would help me.

Advice appreciated!
s
 
If you were local I have two CD duplicators you could have. When i was doing this as part of my business, non playing discs were normal if the blank you used was not the right type, or the burner or the software were not right.

The common error is that audio CDs must be made following what was known as the red book. My best guess is that your computer produced a data disc not and audio disc. Put your disc back in your computer and look at the files on it. Do you see lots of mp3s or wavs? If you do, its a data disc. Recording audio cds needs an application that can do it.

Ive never used Reaper, but cubase that i use cannot produce and audio disc. I always had to use a separate bit of software. There are rules about gaps between tracks too, and making continuous ones was always tricky. I had a sony package that did it. Id certainly try another CD player too, because that will rule out the technics being finicky. I also in the past used a product from nero, no idea if it still exists.
 
What brand of CDRs did you use?
It's too long ago to give you specifics but I do remember issues with some brands.
If I recall I settled on buying Verbatim and burning at the slowest possible speeds.
 
Hmmmm.... I've got a Sony CDR-W33 and a Tascam CD-RW700 and have never had an issue with CD's produced by either one.

I have had various CD players over the years that seem to be finicky about certain CD manufacturers/brands.
 
I've never used Reaper to burn a CD, but I have found that a lot of older CD players struggled with some CD-Rs There's a fundamental difference between the stamped CD with an aluminum layer and a CD-R which used a dye that changes reflectivity as the laser burns it. It also depends on the type of dye. Sometimes a player will work with the silvery dye but not the blue dye CDRs. I have an old Technics CD player that won't play CD-Rs at all. My Sony 100 disc changer works perfectly.

If you have a DVD player, give that a try. All my DVD and Blu Ray players will play CDRs and DVD-Rs without any issue.

If none of those will play it, then you might have an issue with meeting the proper format. I used to use Nero, but since my versions don't work under Win10 or 11, I have switched to CD Burner XP. It's free, and works under Win 10. I haven't tried it on my 11 machines, but I'm guessing it will work.


There also used to be a program CD Identifier that would read the CD identification information, and it would tell you what company actually made the CD. There were really only a few companies that did the manufacturing (TDK, Ritek, JVC, Maxell etc). Many of those have shut down production and sold their business to a few companies since demand has dropped. I think CMC, Taiyo Yuden, Ritek are still making them. Nero CDSpeed would also do this.
 
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Depending on where you're going for your commercial CDs, replicated CDs are very different from duplicated ones. If you do 500+ commercial disks, you're most likely getting a completely different technology (i.e. not CD-Rs)

Besides that, some disks are cheaper than others and may work poorly in unpredictable ways. Some CD players are cheaper than others and may work poorly in unpredictable ways.
All you can do is make sure you're burning to redbook standards on decent quality disks. (Or shell out the 1500+ for replication)
 
Wow, thanks all for the wealth of information. I'm starting to get the picture, I'll answer everything and summarize here:

The common error is that audio CDs must be made following what was known as the red book.
Click to expand...
I sure didn't know what that was before this thread so I am probably not doing this correctly haha.

Put your disc back in your computer and look at the files on it. Do you see lots of mp3s or wavs? If you do, its a data disc. Recording audio cds needs an application that can do it.
Click to expand...
Actually, it comes up as an Audio CD with a bunch of CDA Audio Files - I think this worked properly, and just adds to my understanding that There's Nothing Reaper Can't Do:

cd.webp


What brand of CDRs did you use?
Click to expand...
Trisonic. I found them at the dollar store. They are made in China and the packaging has little proverbs written on it, such as, "BUSY BUT HAPPY AND TIRED BUT JOYFUL," and, "To willingly undergo hardship for the sake of others is compassion." I am assured by the package that these discs are "the best".

(They're the cheapest, crappiest ones I could find, because that's all I could find! Blank CDs are tough to stumble across nowadays!)

There's a fundamental difference between the stamped CD with an aluminum layer and a CD-R which used a dye that changes reflectivity as the laser burns it. It also depends on the type of dye. Sometimes a player will work with the silvery dye but not the blue dye CDRs.
Click to expand...
Depending on where you're going for your commercial CDs, replicated CDs are very different from duplicated ones. If you do 500+ commercial disks, you're most likely getting a completely different technology (i.e. not CD-Rs)
Click to expand...
This was very interesting, thank you. I've been looking around at CD production services and I wanted to be sure that "commercial CD" was an actual hardware distinction and not just marketing.

CDBurnerXP: Free CD and DVD burning software
Click to expand...
I'll try this next before I throw in the towel, thanks!


Now, the benefit of burning my own CDs was that I was going to be able to master for the CD at home - I've listened to lots of CDs through my stereo and was planning on massaging the two-tracks to make it sound best on that platform, and then burn that master specifically to the CD.

So if I send the two-tracks out to a CD production company, am I gonna have to get it mastered first..? or will they master it (and will I trust their work)..?

This is where I start thinking about reaching out to local record labels...

s
 
One last thing, my very old Dell had a CD/DVD burner in it but it must have been misaligned at the factory. I could burn a disc and it would read back perfectly, but when I put it in almost any other drive, it would register as nothing there. The only player that could read it was an old Panasonic DVD player for my TV. I just bought a USB drive for $20 off Amazon and it fixed all my issues.
 
shmaller said:
They're the cheapest, crappiest ones I could find, because that's all I could find! Blank CDs are tough to stumble across nowadays!
Click to expand...
All the other info in this thread is relevant and useful but this ^ is where I'd start.
If you can get your hands on a tried and tested brand like Verbatim, and set burn speed to the slowest, that might be all that's needed.
 
Earlier cd players from before the mid 1990s would not play CDRs at all. Anything from about 2000 and newer should.

Do you have another CD player to test it on?

There was also something I seem to remember about the difference between CD+R and CD-R, but I haven't burned a CD in 15 years.

If you think your audience still buys physical media, and you think you can sell 500 copies, it might be worth getting them manufactured. Otherwise, burn them as you need to, so you don't waste money on product you won't sell.
 
In addition to the above advice, try burning at different speeds.
 
Farview said:
There was also something I seem to remember about the difference between CD+R and CD-R, but I haven't burned a CD in 15 years.
Click to expand...
I don't ever remember the being a "CD+R". Everything was CD-R as in Recordable or CD-RW as in ReWritable. There are two versions of DVD, a +R and -R. It has something to do with how the data is burned. Originally a drive would support one or the other, but eventually drives would read and write either type of disc.
 
I haven't burned a CD for yonks (I do burn a lot of DVDs, whole other story!) The last one I think was for a boot /repair disc for Win 7 but years ago we burned plenty.

I will have used two types of "burning gear". On was Samplitude (SE8 or ProX2 Silver, Prox 3 or Prox 6) sometimes to rip commercial CDs so I could send a copy to my son in France but I did little of that. The other burner was indeed Nero 6 and still is but only for DVD these days. I only have Nero on an old W7 laptop.

I bought whatever blanks were going cheapest at Sainsbury (they made some lulu pricing mistakes sometimes and I was getting 50 CDs for a fiver!) Sony, Philips and yes Verbatim all were grist to my optical mill.

We did try CD-RW but, get ONE microscopic scratch on one? ....Coaster!

Dave.
 
TalismanRich said:
I don't ever remember the being a "CD+R". Everything was CD-R as in Recordable or CD-RW as in ReWritable. There are two versions of DVD, a +R and -R. It has something to do with how the data is burned. Originally a drive would support one or the other, but eventually drives would read and write either type of disc.
Click to expand...
You are right, like I said, it's been a very long time since I did anything with physical media.
 
Steenamaroo said:
All the other info in this thread is relevant and useful but this ^ is where I'd start.
If you can get your hands on a tried and tested brand like Verbatim, and set burn speed to the slowest, that might be all that's needed.
Click to expand...
Farview said:
Earlier cd players from before the mid 1990s would not play CDRs at all. Anything from about 2000 and newer should.

Do you have another CD player to test it on?

There was also something I seem to remember about the difference between CD+R and CD-R, but I haven't burned a CD in 15 years.

If you think your audience still buys physical media, and you think you can sell 500 copies, it might be worth getting them manufactured. Otherwise, burn them as you need to, so you don't waste money on product you won't sell.
Click to expand...

I think this is my problem. I bought crappy CDs and I'm running it through a very old CD player. I'll try to find a friend who has one in their car or something that I can use.

Being a musician in NYC is tough, no cars with CD players, no cars to test mixes in!

I would be very surprised if I sold like 20 of these in my life, so I'll probably just keep tinkering around and stick to Bandcamp for "selling" my album. (Having physical media of my music is important to me though.)

Another thing I've seen is customized / branded USB sticks with the album on it, which is less fun but I suppose would work.

Thanks!
 
One of my tower duplicators I bought to do Bluray discs - and not one customer ever wanted one. Total waste of time, as it just got used doing CDs.
 
TalismanRich said:
I've never used Reaper to burn a CD, but I have found that a lot of older CD players struggled with some CD-Rs There's a fundamental difference between the stamped CD with an aluminum layer and a CD-R which used a dye that changes reflectivity as the laser burns it. It also depends on the type of dye. Sometimes a player will work with the silvery dye but not the blue dye CDRs. I have an old Technics CD player that won't play CD-Rs at all. My Sony 100 disc changer works perfectly.

If you have a DVD player, give that a try. All my DVD and Blu Ray players will play CDRs and DVD-Rs without any issue.

If none of those will play it, then you might have an issue with meeting the proper format. I used to use Nero, but since my versions don't work under Win10 or 11, I have switched to CD Burner XP. It's free, and works under Win 10. I haven't tried it on my 11 machines, but I'm guessing it will work.


There also used to be a program CD Identifier that would read the CD identification information, and it would tell you what company actually made the CD. There were really only a few companies that did the manufacturing (TDK, Ritek, JVC, Maxell etc). Many of those have shut down production and sold their business to a few companies since demand has dropped. I think CMC, Taiyo Yuden, Ritek are still making them. Nero CDSpeed would also do this.
Click to expand...
Aren’t all CD player old by now?

Perhaps the issue has to do with the possibility that the CD wasn’t finalized which should be corrected in a setting in you CD burning software.
 
rob aylestone said:
One of my tower duplicators I bought to do Bluray discs - and not one customer ever wanted one. Total waste of time, as it just got used doing CDs.
Click to expand...
BluRay might be a good way to archive and store all your music files.
 
None of my last 3 cars had cd players in them. It was all bluetooth and usb.

The majority of people who want physical media are over 45. Not a good demographic to sell music to.

Yes Scott, all cd players are old, but the ones that are from before the mid 90s would not play cd-rs.
 
My 2016 has both USB and CD which is great. There's about 3000 songs on my tiny USB drive, and I can take my CDs to the car to listen to mixes. It plays either standard Red Book CD or MP3s via the CD drive.
 
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