Options For Budget Overheads? ($150-$250 per mic)

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Niall McEvoy

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Hey,
I'm looking to get a pair of Large Diaphragm Condensers for a project studio I'm saving up for. I'm a bit bamboozled by all the options at the moment, I just can't decide, and I can't try them for myself because there is nowhere here.
I'm looking to get the best quality/sounding mics in this pricerange. I'm looking to be able to get the toms and the hihats in on these mics because of a limited budget / mic inputs for live sound.
So far these are the ones I think suit the most:
Studio Projects B1s
Rode NT1-As
AKG 3000Bs
Rode NT3s
Can anyone give me some opinions on these?
 
why must they be LDC's?

Røde NT5's, Studio Projects C4s, and hundreds more, are great mics for overheads.
 
Look at Naiant Studios mics. See the Naiant thread in this forum. $45 / matched pair; very workable mics. There are some drum tracks posted in the thread.
 
LDCs wouldn't necessarily be my first choice for overheads. Any particular reason you want them? There are lots of good SDC choices in your price range. I'd look at a pair of used AT-4051s (@$250 each). The aforementioned Rodes are popular, as well as Oktavas and the MXL 603s. Another good possibility would be a used pair of GT-44s (or AM40s -- same mic -- also $200-$250 each). These are actually more of a MDC, but work very well for overheads and instruments generally. One of my favorite acoustic instrument mics.
 
Well, I wanted LDCs because from what I understand they would pick up toms and hihats better than SDCs
 
Overhead mics are very much a personal taste thing. Some people like LDCs and some people like SDCs. You will probably get about as many opinions as there are mics. And the room will matter. Ideally, you should try out some candidates in your room to see what you like. If your retailer won't let you try some out and return them, borrow from friends. FWIW, I haven't used the mics on your list aside from the AKGs and personally, I don't care for them (the AKGs). I find them harsh and kind of shrill. You can do better for the money IMHO.
 
Niall McEvoy said:
Well, I wanted LDCs because from what I understand they would pick up toms and hihats better than SDCs

I'd say that's BS. That stuff about LDC's having better bass response is garbage. If anything, smaller diaphragms are typically more accurate and would give you a better picture of the toms. They also tend to have wider patterns and better off-axis response, which is a plus since sounds from the drums are coming from all over. Additionally, large diaphragm mics tend to have a bigger bump in the high frequencies, which can be either good or bad, depending on your cymbals.

That being said, either can work. LDCs like the AKG C414 are pretty classic for OH, as are Shure SM81 SDCs. In your pricerange, you have lots of options. In the LDC bracket, CAD M179s are pretty versatile and I've heard good things about the ADK Hamburg. Several of the SDC possibilities have already been mentioned.
 
Niall McEvoy said:
Well, I wanted LDCs because from what I understand they would pick up toms and hihats better than SDCs


Not sure that's at all accurate although I've never used LDC's for overheads so I can't say for sure. What I can say is that if you get your mic placement right you'll pick everything up just fine.
 
Niall McEvoy said:
Well, I wanted LDCs because from what I understand they would pick up toms and hihats better than SDCs

omnidirectional mics actually have a more extended lower frequency response than LDC's do. and secondly LDC's usually have some sort of color to them (a slight boost in the low mids, along with some sweetness in the high end) which can be either detrimental to your drum sound, or may improve it, while all omni's will give you an accurate representation of what you have. so either try out some LDC's and see if you do like them or go pick up some msh-10's, the best buy for omni's out there right now.
 
A pair of B1's would be fine, the CAD M179's work well also.

War
 
I would have also liked LDCs because since I'm only 16 I'm fairly strapped for cash and I'd like to get some quality mics that can double up for vocals too.
 
im 16 too....

im using AKG c430's. $200 for the pair, and well, they are pretty nice really.

if i knew how to use them properly, they would be even better ;)

remember, with LDC's, you cant just throw them up on any old cheap boom stand.. you will have to get some serious stands for that, probably a studio boom stand, which i found for $80...

you gotta figure on everything..
 
Niall McEvoy said:
I would have also liked LDCs because since I'm only 16 I'm fairly strapped for cash and I'd like to get some quality mics that can double up for vocals too.

i would say that if your in a bind for cash, get the msh-10 or msh-1c(cardiod) pair for $50 then get a SP B1 or something for cheap as well. not one mic that will be used for more than one track. you want variety in the tone and color of your recordings, so you should avoid using the same mic for different sources.
 
MSH 1c's

Mshilarious--

The Omnis are better? My recording space is low ceilinged and I'll be recording mostly jazz taken live. I was thinking of the 1c's for OH to better isolate the drums from everything else in the room and reduce relections from the ceiling.

Would you still reccommend the omnis?

Thanks,

Joe in CT
 
Obi-Wan zenabI said:
Mshilarious--

The Omnis are better? My recording space is low ceilinged and I'll be recording mostly jazz taken live. I was thinking of the 1c's for OH to better isolate the drums from everything else in the room and reduce relections from the ceiling.

Would you still reccommend the omnis?

The 1Cs aren't typical cardioid condensers and I would not recommend them for overheads in any situation.

However, let's look at your situation in general terms.

A cardioid microphone gets less directional at lower frequencies. With a low ceiling, you would be best served by treating the ceiling to absorb reflections. This doesn't have to be permanent or expensive; a few acoustic ceiling tiles dropped down 3 inches with some insulation will help quite a lot. Pay attention to the type of tile, even with what you'll find at Home Depot the acoustic ratings vary a lot; the better tile is made out of fiberglass.

Especially if you want to record live jazz, you need to consider using typical techniques to get the sound you want. Isolation should not be the main concern. If you try to avoid room issues by close-micing and isolating everything, you will discover you haven't created a jazz recording.

<soapbox>

I have a secret motive in making omnidirectional mics. OK, I have two secret motives:

Motive #1: cardioid microphones naturally have resonant peaks which are typically in the 4-8kHz range. Some designs avoid that (SM81 comes to mind), but most in the budget range do not. Depending on the quality and execution of the design, that can be a good thing or a bad thing.

But what I hear in too many mixes as the result of cheap cardioids is an excess accumulation in the 4kHz range that far too often results in me cutting 4kHz or de-essing the whole mix. But that doesn't give a final result as good as if that peak was not there.

Vocals can often benefit from a lift, if they aren't too sibilant to start with. But when everything else is boosted, it's just too much. If I can get that out of the overheads, that is my small contribution to better audio.


Motive #2: I hear all kinds of reasons why people want a cardioid instead of an omni. Here are some good ones:

- You want to use a mono-compatible stereo micing technique, or you just really like coincident pair, near-coincident pair, etc, better than baffled or spaced pairs.

- You want the sound of a cardioid microphone, whether that be proximity effect, or the presence boost, or something else.

- You require the off-axis rejection for live sound.

Those are all good reasons, but due to the nature of the 6mm capsule I use, I cannot help with any of them.


Here are some I don't agree with:

- You require the off-axis rejection because your PC is in the room and loud.

- You require the off-axis rejection to avoid bleed.

- You require the off-axis rejection because your air conditioner is loud.

- You require the off-axis rejection because your room is untreated.


So here is my secret motive #2: I suspect the reason people like my omnis is because they sound more like your own ears (which, after all, are omni), which means that there are no tricks to placement--just put 'em where it sounds good in your head. And if something sounds bad in your head, fix the source, fix the room, do anything except expecting the mic to fix it for you.

</soapbox>
 
Awesome reply, MS. It is refreshing to see non-hyped info from a designer/manufacturer.

Looking forward to picking a pair of the omnis up.
 
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