optimum ceiling height for recording drums????

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raindogred

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Can anyone tell me what the minimum ceiling height should be for recording drums. I have a granny flat under the house with a low ceiling and have not been that happy with the results so far. have got the kit tuned and sounding sweet new skins etc etc,. Am using ATpro 9 kick, 2 x sm57, 1 x sm58, an older sennheiser which is really nice (forget the model), also have got a pair of mxl 603s and a pair of rodes Nt1. I read heaps of guys who reckon they are getting killer drum sounds with similar setups. Mine just sound boxy and small??????? Its a fairly cheap brand kit but my buddy who is a pro reckons it sounds pretty good. Can,t figure why I can,t capture that sound that I can hear live.how much bearing does room size play in the equation?? I,m talking about seven and a half feet from floor to ceiling. Any tricks to improve my sound would be appreciated. have floated the idea of moving my rig into the lounge room up stairs but the wife is seriously against this :) any advice appreciated..
 
raindogred,

I've recorded some killer drum sounds in a room that size. And my lead guitar player has done the same - him with a cheap kit that you wouldn't think could sound good anywhere.Ceiling height in this case shouldn't be the culprit.

What are you doing for the drums themselves?

Over-ring can be a problem - so you have to deal with that in some manner. Tape in just the right spots - or the jelly - can go a long ways towards helping with this.

I also use a full muffler on the bass along with a foam muffler inside.

There may also be an issue with exactly how you are micing the drums themselves......... or the equipment you're recording with.

Are you using compression during the process - eq?

It would help if you could explain exactly what you're doing - from the kit to the recording process.

Rod
 
Yeah as for guitars we have been able to get some awsome sounds from guitar amps in the same room. So maybe you are right about it not being the ceiling height.

Drum setup.

I have placed a pillow in the kick and have completely removed the front skin?? not sure if this is good practice or not.. Have a AT Pro9 kick drum mic on small tripod placed just inside-can,t get it any closer as it just clips badly. Kick sound is actually not so bad-not great either a little muddy.

Sm 57 on snare pointed directly at the centre of the drum. placed at right angles on the left side so that the back of the mic faces the hihats. Has a bit of gaffa tape placed by my mate based on his experience in pro studios (this guy has done a heap of sessions in real studios and some live radio work). Sound I get from the snare is thin and almost always can only sound half decent by adding some lower mid range frequencies in the EQ, but results in possibly throwing out the rest of the drum mix??

SM57 and a 58 on toms -these sound ok on their own but again in the mix tend to turn a bit muddy and lose their character. Also use a sennheiser on the floor tom-same results.

MXL603s are on stands and are placed just over head height to left and right, facing the centre of the kit on 45 degree angles. Have tried heaps of different positions-this seems as good as any. really open to suggestions.

Tend not to use any compression at the recording stage but play around in the mix with this. can get nasty:)

Have tried a gate on kick and snare and then used Drumagog with pretty decent results but this method can lose a lot of the sublties when doing alot of little rolls and stuff and isn't as natural sounding and beats tend to drop out. would prefer to try and capture as natural a sound as possible.

Am using a hoontech DSP2000 sound card and the front end is basically a couple of DMP3s and a Alto aplha tube preamp

Any suggestions/tips appreciated. Maybe I'm expecting too much from the gear I have or am not doing it correctly. Have talked to guys who reckon that you should record drums with nothing less than Neve preamps and Neumann mics due to all the frequencies bouncing around and that you should be in proper studio etc.

Rod thanks for the reply dude, if you got a sample of a good drum recording that you have achieved I would love to hear it. Actually would love to hear from anyone who has similar gear to mine to see what really is possible at home. Am having 2nd thoughts about the whole process and am thinking of selling some gear to pay for studio time and just leave the drumming for the studio and do guitars/ vocals at home maybe-these I can get pretty decent results from using rodes/shures etc.

frustrated









Have ta
Rod Gervais said:
raindogred,

I've recorded some killer drum sounds in a room that size. And my lead guitar player has done the same - him with a cheap kit that you wouldn't think could sound good anywhere.Ceiling height in this case shouldn't be the culprit.

What are you doing for the drums themselves?

Over-ring can be a problem - so you have to deal with that in some manner. Tape in just the right spots - or the jelly - can go a long ways towards helping with this.

I also use a full muffler on the bass along with a foam muffler inside.

There may also be an issue with exactly how you are micing the drums themselves......... or the equipment you're recording with.

Are you using compression during the process - eq?

It would help if you could explain exactly what you're doing - from the kit to the recording process.

Rod
Click to expand...
 
I would put the front head back on the drum and put the kick mic about a foot or so in front....I've got an Evans emad external muffler as the batter head and the EQ3 muffler pads inside the kick...moongel on the snare...

take the two MXL's and put one 2 1/2 ft above the snare...put the other over the drummers right shoulder....these two mics should be equally distant from the snare and kick batter center..

you can get away with three mics....add the 57 to the snare if needed but you might not even need it...

these setup gives me a pretty close approximation of what the kit actually sounds like.....

only processing I've used is software compression and a touch of verb for ambience...

I'm trying to load an Mp3 of my stuff but its not happening....I'll keep at it...
 
Ok that sounds really interesting!!! I take it the MXL603 over the snare is pointing staight down at the middle of the snare. Where are you aiming at with the other one?? what point are you aiming the mic at?? From this position are you able to capture the ride cymbal and floor tom adequately?? Also do you mic the toms as before or are the 3 mics sufficient for the whole kit??
cheers
 
raindogred said:
Ok that sounds really interesting!!! I take it the MXL603 over the snare is pointing staight down at the middle of the snare. Where are you aiming at with the other one?? what point are you aiming the mic at?? From this position are you able to capture the ride cymbal and floor tom adequately?? Also do you mic the toms as before or are the 3 mics sufficient for the whole kit??
cheers
Click to expand...

point both oH's directly at the point of the snare batter where the stick makes the most contact.....

with the 3 mic technique you don't need to mic the toms....if you're not picking up the rack toms then you need to move the snare oh closer in .....which of course means you move oh #2 closer in also....

you can center pan or pan L/R your overheads...either way you will get the snare in the center, your racks toms, hat and left crash cymbal will be one side of the stereo image, and your ride, floor tom, and right crash will be on the other side....do a continuous single roll from the snare to the rack toms to the floor tom and the roll will be spread across the entire stereo image....cool
 
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