Opinions wanted: lrg/sml condens. mics 4 ac. guit. (larrivee D style)

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bitrot

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Looking for people's preferences for condensors, large or small for Taylor/Larrivee Dreadnought guitars to get that standard full, folk/pop sound.

I'm looking for warmth and detailed on the highs but not so much crispy highs like the NT's and AKG's...

I am currently using an at3535 and sm57 on a 20 year old-warped to hell yamaha js-180 (blush) with honky and boomy mids, but my larrivee d03 is arriving "any day now" and I'm considering another one or two mic purchases and returning the at3525...

I use mackie 1202 pre's, bypassing eq, and midiman 24/96 converters, and monster proline cables... so the only thing between me and THE SOUND should be a mic at this point (ok so the pre's are arguably not the best colorwise.. but bypassing the eq on the mackie boards makes a big diff).

I am not looking for "the best mic(s)", just people's subjective opinions when close-miking this guitar to get a warm, detailed sound for one guitar and single vocal arrangements with larrivees.

here's a list so far in my price range:

at4041 (would love the 4051..)
at4033
at4050
soundroom Octava 012's
sm81
earthworks (cheapest omni)
marshall 603 (ugh)
nt3?

I have tried a few G.C. 012 Octava's and each one sounded markedly different and a little dark.

Interestingly, I have not heard great things about the "versatile" at4050 on acoustic guitars... and the on the debate between small vs. large, I am already commited to one of each..

all subjective opinions welcome.
 
What about the new rode ntk. Subject to a bit more research I think that's going to be my next mic purchase. At the momnet I use an NT-1/adequate.

If I find myself with a little more time I will try and find a link for you that I found very useful on the issue of warmth when micing acoustic guitars.

Anyway, time to go.
 
tonejunkee said:
For my 1981 Taylor 810, I put an AT4041 at the 12th fret and my AT4060 tube mic down by the bottom..................awesome results
Click to expand...
Yeah.... until the guitarist farts! :p

Bruce

:D :D
 
tdukex mentioned the at 4047. That's what I use (alone) for my (Martin 00016C (classical)) guitar. I don't have much to compare it to, but I like the results so far. Very warm. On my last song I was strumming but wanted to get up close. I used the -10db switch and got the immediacy I wanted while avoiding the mud. Top song at http://www.mp3.com/LarryKolker. It's a nylon string guitar and your pre is probably better (I'm plugged directly into my Aardvark Direct Pro 24/96 (this was recorded, btw at 24/44.1)) but it should give you some idea.
 
wow - sounds great Larry

for going direct to the ardvaark, and being in mp3 format at that resolution, the sound is very nice....

great stuff, and the mic sure sounds good on your voice, too... could be a great all-around mic, since I don't believe I have a good room for omni recording anyway..

I enjoyed the pallet blues song. I could hear your room while you were singing and leaning back at one point in the song, and that's a good sign of the mic imo...

thanks Larry.
 
You're welcome. And thanks for your comments.

BTW, I did use the same mic for the vocals, although in case you were uncertain about this, I tracked them separately. I do think it's a nice overall mic; I also think it's better than the 4055.
 
The Axis

I have tried numerous mikes on your list (AT4041, AT4033, Okatva, NT1, NT3...as well as some orthers.) In the end, I bought Earthworks, and felt that they were not just "better" but vastly and dramatically better.

In the world of fine acoustic guitars I think "better" means " more accurate and faithful to the source".

Just my opinion, having tried them for the same intended application.

Peace,
Rick
 
I have thought of the earthworks based on stuff I've read, but.... omni's for close miking? This seems counterintuitive, but doable if you put them real close. I've read that putting some of the earthworks within inches of a guitar body or cab can give good sound, but I realy don't like a mic so close to my guitar that a slight shift in body position will knock the capsule...

Do you have any ambient noise issues, or is your room isolated? mine is not, so I am not sure omni's would be my first choice for recording in a potentially noisy room. what's your experience been with these? How far away do you put your mics from your guitar, and in what position? Ever had problems with bleed from outside your room (neighboors, cars, etc)

thanks
 
OMNIS:

If you have read the "Omni Usage Guide" (or whatever it is called) at the E-W site, that is pretty well corroborated by my own experience.

I keep mine about 12-18 inches in front of the guitar, because, like you, it bothers me to have them too close...but that is just psychological. I have tried them both VERY close (2-3 inches) and further away.
The thing is, with the EW mikes, the sound doesn't vary with position nearly as much as with other mikes. Partially beacuse they are omni, but I also have an SR71 (wide cardioid) and it is less sensitive to position also (I don't know exactly why !). Basically, you just plunk em down out in front of you somewhere and they always sound great. I have tried all the "voodoo mike position formulas" with other mikes , and it does seem necessary on those, but with the EW, it just isn't necessary.

I DO have ambient noise problems. I shut off EVERYTHING in my house prior to recording (fans, etc. And I CAN hear traffic out on the street, so I usually wait until late at night. But I had those same problems with the AT4033, etc. so if the EW are worse, it is not too much worse.

Hey...I am just like you ! I was skeptical as hell, and would never have even considered EW if I hadn't been convinced to try them by a guy who was an acoustic engineer who convinced me, by his language and attitude, that he really knew his stuff. So I called EW and talked with the owner. He advised me to go with the QTC1s because of their lower self-noise (fingerstyle acoustic guitar is pretty soft). I bought a "blem" pair direct from EW. I was fully prepared to send them back within the 30 days (because they are a little more expensive than I wanted !) Instead, I kept them, and sold most of my other mikes. (I can't find the "blem") I am completely satisfied, that is all I can say.

After I got the QTC1s, I found an SR71 on closeout for $275, so I thought that was too good a deal to pass up. So I got it. The SR71 is also much better than any of the other mikes I tried, so if I had gotten it first, I probably would have been satisfied and stopped the search there. But in direct A/B comparisons, I can tell that the QTC1s are just a slight increment more "natural" sounding. I still swap out the SR71 once in a while just for subtle variation. It is easy to hear the difference, but pretty hard to describe exactly what the difference is. I think the QTC1 is more precise in the midrange and the SR71 is every so slightly more hollow sounding (but nothing like a typical small-medium size condenser).

If the EW sound interesting to you, order a pair and wring-em out good within the first 30 days. If they aren't as great as I claim, then send them back for a full refund and publicly denounce me as a moron on this forum ! :) If you like em, tell us that also.

Peace,
Rick
 
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