Opinion of VST Compressors

J

joswil44

New member
I am running Nuendo 2.2 and the only plugins I have used for Compressors is the built in VST's that come with Nuendo.

Other than that, I have an Alesis 3630 Compressor which I hear alot of negative reviews about.

It seems to me like I can't really hear the VST Compressors doing much of what they are supposed to be doing.

It kinda seems like they just play with the volume of the track as opposed to evening out the dynamics of a vocal or bass performance.

I have used recommended settings from books and online sources but they don't seem to do anything noticeable.

Is this typical with standard VST Compressors?

Are there better VST's?

Or is it best to go outboard and get an RNC, DBX or even spend some bigger money for a Distressor?

It seems like I remember being in a Studio and the Engineer used a Joe Meek Compressor and some DBX's.

The vocals came out excellent when the compressor evened out the lighter screems, talking and heavy growls.

I find myself going into a track and having to turn certain parts up or down on the vocals in order to balance it out even after using my Alesis or VST compressors.

Same with drums, the Kick, Toms and Snare had fullness and attack.

I dont seem to hear or feel any compression at work on my setup.

Just seems like it will make my tracks volume change but no improvement in balance or dynamics.

Any opinions?
 
Try out Reacomp from the reaplugs collection (you can get version 1 over at KVR)
http://reaper.fm/files/reaplugs.zip

for version 1 beta - reacomp is fantastic - lots of things to play with (include High and Low pass filters, RMS window, pre-compression, parallel compression etc etc etc etc)

and yeah, use the "recommended" settings as a basic guideline only - there is fact no "standard" that you can use - but for vocals, if you need to fix major volume changed, maybe try a compressor to get that "compression sound" followed by a limiter to catch big vocal bursts.
 
some say if you dont hear the compressor then its doing its job and/or it is setup right. In other words you dont want to hear it pumping, squishing the shit out of the signal. The other thing is some compressors "color" the sound, they have their own sound that they add, others do not, they just compress.
 
if you want to know whether a compressor(or any other processor) is really doing anything, put all the settings to the most extreme levels...threshold all the way down, ratio up, attack as fast as possible, release as slow as possible, with no make-up gain

then listen to the track while enabling/disabling the processing, and listen to the difference - it should be quite obvious at this point. then roll back on the various controls until things sound how you want them to, and you should be good to go.
 
When I say I dont hear anything I mainly mean that there is no difference when I have say a Vocal track that is switching from Spoken word to High Screams to low growls or a Snare durring a blast beat that varies in velocity.

I have heard some compressed vocals and drums that evened out the performance and whenever I try settings recommended they never seem to do that.

Makes me wonder if its just my Nuendo VST and 3630 that aren't very good.

It seems more like I am adjusting changing the overall volume, not squashing louder parts down to the level of the lower parts and bringing them up as a whole.

I have definately tryed some extreme settings and they sounded like crap, way squashed.

But it terms of simply controlling vocals or snare drum or something where a compressor would be very useful I am not getting that result.

Almost makes me thing I need a Track Plugin with a Limiter that will keep the louder parts as loud as the lower parts.

But I thought the compressor is supposed to help with that depending on its settings.

I have some tracks where there is probably at least 6-10db in difference between different vocal parts.

Perhaps my Threshold is off and I am allowing the peaks to pass through as is.
 
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And to make sure I have this correct..........

If I set my Threshold too low I will be compressing the highs and lows equally which will mainly play with volume and not balance the difference between my peaks or louder vocals and lower vocals?

Perhaps thats my problem?

What I should be making sure is that my Threshold is set to Compress anything above the avarage lowest level of my vocal track, and that my Ratio is set to produce an Output near my Threshold level in order to even out the performance?

So if my Vocal Peaks at 0dB and I set the Threshold to -6dB and the Ratio to 6:1, my Peak will now hit at -5dB which is much closer to my -6dB Threshold.

Am I getting closer?
 
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Did you click the click I gave you? I doubt it.

I agree with RedStone, I like the ReaComp compressor.
 
when i have vocal takes that have a large dynamic difference in the song i usually just manually edit it so i either have the quiet and loud parts as one track or just bring down the volume of the louder parts to fit the volume of the quiet parts. i personally think compressor vsts do their job well. i use the blockfish, classic compressor and reacomp.
 
joswil44 said:
..I find myself going into a track and having to turn certain parts up or down on the vocals in order to balance it out even after using my Alesis or VST compressors...
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My experience in general is that the plug-comps can do very well, and pretty much go where ever you set them to.
As odd as it might seem now, it sounds like you're on the right track. Like Surfmaster mentioned, in situations where levels vary greatly (and maybe even if they don't) can fall best on mixing, ie. either moving faders, or moving or automating the input side (channel trim) feeding the comp, to get things near where they need to go. This lightens what is expected of the comp. Naturally the more you push this on to the comp, the more aggressive the settings would be, and the artifacts.

Finding a balance point in the settings is pretty much the same in hardware or plugs.
One you get a better feel for what's going on, how to steer them, things will beging to fall into place.
 
If you have huge dynamic range I'd use volume automation/envelopes to get as normal and smooth of a level as possible. Then maybe do some finishing touches with a compressor if you need to.

ReaComp is a great compressor plugin. But I have still yet to hear a digital compressor plugin actually add anything good to the sound so that's why I usually use volume automation + light compression.

If I had a nice outboard analog compressor that'd be a different story.
 
If you are truely going from very quiet to very loud, a ompressor isn't going to do the whole job without it sounding like crap. The loud stuff will sound squashed and the quiet stuff will sound thin. You need to edit that stuff to get it more even.

In your example, you would need 10db of gain reduction. That is too much unless you want something to sound very squishy.

Let me get this straight. You bought a $2000 movie post production software package and you don't know how to use a compressor? You should have saved $1200 and gotten cubase (same program audio-wise) and bought yourself a decent compressor.
 
Farview said:
If you are truely going from very quiet to very loud, a ompressor isn't going to do the whole job without it sounding like crap. The loud stuff will sound squashed and the quiet stuff will sound thin. You need to edit that stuff to get it more even.

In your example, you would need 10db of gain reduction. That is too much unless you want something to sound very squishy.

Let me get this straight. You bought a $2000 movie post production software package and you don't know how to use a compressor? You should have saved $1200 and gotten cubase (same program audio-wise) and bought yourself a decent compressor.
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Ironflippy - I did read that like ages ago but I haven't had an opportunity to print it or copy it onto my Mac and experiment with it.

I bought Nuendo 1 for $900 and upgraded to 2 for $300.

I thought this was a forum for posting questions and sharing resources for home recording.

Obviously home recording is going to consist of alot of beginners and people who have been doing it for a while but haven't been schooled or necessarily had the time to educate themselves.

We come here for quick responses to problems we encounter.

It becomes a learning process.

Everythings helpfull but the smart ass remarks.

Much Appreciated.
 
joswil44 said:
I thought this was a forum for posting questions and sharing resources for home recording.
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It is.

joswil44 said:
Obviously home recording is going to consist of alot of beginners and people who have been doing it for a while but haven't been schooled or necessarily had the time to educate themselves.
Click to expand...
Most beginning home recordists would have no use for post production software, nor would they drop the money on it when all they are trying to do is audio. (Cubase SX was 1/3 the price for the same thing)

joswil44 said:
We come here for quick responses to problems we encounter.

It becomes a learning process.

Everythings helpfull but the smart ass remarks.
Click to expand...
Sorry, but you sounded like a pirate. (outdated top shelf software, asking very basic questions, etc...) It just seemed fishy, Nuendo 2 came out over 4 years ago and you are still asking questions about mixdown, levels, etc...
 
Farview said:
It is.

Most beginning home recordists would have no use for post production software, nor would they drop the money on it when all they are trying to do is audio. (Cubase SX was 1/3 the price for the same thing)

Sorry, but you sounded like a pirate. (outdated top shelf software, asking very basic questions, etc...) It just seemed fishy, Nuendo 2 came out over 4 years ago and you are still asking questions about mixdown, levels, etc...
Click to expand...

I bought Nuendo 1 under a recommendation from a consultant at Pro Audio Design. I thought at some point I might even be able to use it for making Music Video's.

I just stuck with Nuendo since upgrading wasn't too expensive.

I have the Mac version which I have never heard of being Pirated.

Still debating whether to upgrade to 3 or wait for 4.

I am just another musician who came to the conclusion that I would rather spend a few grand on my own equipment than spend it at a studio every time I need a demo made.

My demos have been sounding better than what $60 per hour pro studios are charging in my area. (guessing their engineers suck because their gear is awesome)

But Im trying to take it to the next level so I have a lot to learn and will be here asking lots of stupid questions.
;)
 
My opinion is that you should definitely use a compressor. :D

Seriously, there are a lot of discussions and information sites that review the technical aspects of what a compressor can do for you. I don't have them memorized, so you'll need to search.

I can only guess that you aren't hearing much difference when using your compressor(s) may be because the levels haven't reached a level to where the compressor starts kicking in. Also, the attack and release will have a significant role on the output of a compressor.

In addition to compressors being applied to individual tracks, they can also be applied to groups of tracks and/or the entire mix. A variation of compression is limiting...so...anyway, there is a LOT to compression. Perhaps a tutorial from somewhere will be very helpful.
 
Blockfish is my favorite free VST compressor. Look it up if you haven't. Can have attitude, grit, and pumpyness if you want it; or be clean and smooth.
 
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