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mjbphotos

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This is the last of the new songs I'm working on for my next album.

Is there too much going on (starting at the first chorus), making it too indistinct/muddy?




New mix 9-4-16:



Took out all the 'noodles' except for each line-in to the chorus. Tweaked a few other things.

Mix #3:


OK, my ears are getting tired, and so am I! Appreciate all the listens and suggestions.

Put a high pass on the piano - boy did that make it pop out of the mix! Turned down its volume just a hair. Scooped some bass out out that muddy area too. No other changes.
Mix #4
 
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The acoustic guitars sound very good. Vocal EQ sounds fine to me. The low end sounds good and balanced to me too.

I think that the hi-hat has a little too much "sizzle" on it. If there's a hi-frequency boost on it, you might tame it by a couple dB. And you could still turn the hi-hat down by a couple dB even after that.

Otherwise I think this is well balanced, nice job man.
 
mjbphotos said:
Is there too much going on (starting at the first chorus), making it too indistinct/muddy?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think so. It's the lower mids bogging it down. I'd personally mult the acoustic and when things kick in EQ the heck out of the multed track (high pass at like 300hz). The acoustic sounds good when everything else isn't in there. I'd turn the bass down a hair, too.

I agree with Tadpui the high hat has some sizzle.
 
I have to disagree with Tad on the vocals, I think they are too dark and inarticulate. Especially when the background vocals join in. I can't understand the words. Add some energy in the 3k to 5k range and see if it brings them out more.

I agree about the hihat. Bring them down.

I think you should bring the solo guitar down further during the bridge.

Good singing. On pitch and tasteful use of dynamics.
 
Chili - you found the vocal fault- I had to turn down that range because there was a lot of sibilance. From my original setting, I boosted >5K up a bit to help it, but the 3-5K range was where it all was.

I've got no EQ on the hi hat, I hope a little helps.

Nola - 'mult' - do you mean multiband compression? Never used it, I'd probably mess it up more than leaving it! Maybe I can just automate the EQ on the acoustic track to lower those low-mids starting at the first chorus.

Thanks for the listens
 
mjbphotos said:
Chili - you found the vocal fault- I had to turn down that range because there was a lot of sibilance. From my original setting, I boosted >5K up a bit to help it, but the 3-5K range was where it all was.
Click to expand...

There are a couple of things you can try to reduce the sibilance without reducing the mid-highs. If you're using compression on the vocal, use less. If you use reverb, dial it back and/or notch out the reverb at the center freq of the sibilance. I'd rather hear a little bit of sibilance than a dark vocal track.
 
mjbphotos said:
Nola - 'mult' - do you mean multiband compression?
Click to expand...

No, I mean I'd cut the acoustic track into two (multiple tracks), then EQ the one during the verse differently to thin it out so it blends with the vocals better.

The vocal did sound dark, but I thought that was from the acoustic hogging up those frequencies. If you made a cut to the vocal that explains it. For sibilance I find what is best to splice around the sibilant word and lower the volume of that one word. It's better than a de-esser or anything like that b/c you don't have to use it on the entire track, and it sounds more natural. Or mic technique stuff like backing away, but I'm sure you know that. If the mic is very bright maybe consider modding the capsule. Which mic is it?
 
Improving vocal clarity should be top of the to-do list. It seems to be a nice melody but the lyrics are indistinct. I can make out the first few lines when it's just the vocal and acoustic guitar. It's significantly less clear when the bass, rhythm guitars, keyboard come in. When the backing vocals (which sound nice, btw) and lead guitar enter, that's pretty much the end of it. Your song gets crowded out by a clutter of competing sounds. You need to make some choices here. From what I can tell the song is good, but the mix is letting you down.

Regarding the arrangement, the thing that sticks out for me is the lead guitar. I thought the noodling detracted from your arrangement. If you disagree, that's fine. Chalk it up to one man's pet peeve. To me, noodling says that you didn't have anything to say but felt that you should be playing anyway. So you filled empty space with notes by working up and down the scales. It's just never a good thing. Your arrangements would be stronger if you made your leads concise, melodic, and purposeful.
 
Redid the verse and bridge singing this afternoon, moved slightly to the side instead of directly-on with the mic, that helped a little. Funny - I heard a Frank Sinatra song on the radio this morning and couldn't help but notice the sibilance on it!
Few other minor tweaks per comments above.
Robus - I understand the noodling comment, when I tried the mix without the verse lead bits it sounded very empty. I don't really consider it noodling, but accenting to the key. ;)

New mix:
 
I listened to the old version and the new version is much better, more opened and there is a sense of space. i really like the accoustic guitar coming up at 0.36

somehow I will second Robus on the guitar (being guilty of it myself, it helps to be on the other side to understand the concept). at times particulary before 1.36mns mark, the guitar jst doesn't make sense with the rest of the arrangement, tone and harmonic wise.While it is in the correct key it does not serve well the song at times. there is definitely space for it, but not this style or tone through the song. I don't mean to sound harsh you have a great song there with great harmonics and arrangements.i really like the piano part through the song but barely can't hear it with the guitar muffling it in an asymmetric way

I'll try to keep the electric guitar from: 1.36mns to 1.40 then from 1.55 to 2.15(this one is super cool though). from there you could bring up a bit more the electric doing the chords up to the 2.32 mark when it becomes more quiet. from the 2.59 the soloing guitar could stay at that point.

In between those marks, it needs a more complementary line to the rest of the arrangement, if you can, pick a trio (eg, acoustic,hit-hat,piano), to lead the line for the electric .

This is just my 2 cts , I really like the song and the concept though.
 
Second mix is still sounding congested to me. The voice needs space to be heard clearly, and to sell the lyric to the audience. I think it's a case of too many sounds competing to be heard. Nola might be right that the acoustic guitar is one of the offenders.
 
There is a lot of stuff happening at times in this mix. Especially in the choruses.

I kind of like the dark tone of the vocals when there's a lot of parts going on.

Some of the vocal pitch seemed a little hesitant, especially in the verses.
 
I appreciate all the listens.

Took out all the 'noodles' except for each line-in to the chorus. Tweaked a few other things.

Mix #3:
 
Definitely a step forward. The more sparing lead guitar works for me. I'm having trouble hearing exactly what is going on with your low mids, but that's the main source of congestion that is still pushing the vocals to the background. I think it is the interaction of your bass, left hand of the piano, and acoustic guitar.
 
To me that acoustic is much too dominant for a busy mix. It needs to be multed with an aggressive HP at 250-300hz. The piano sounds like it's overlapping with the bass. You need to clean house in that 200-400 range with some aggressive EQ if you want them all to be in there. I'd lower the acoustic in volume either way. It's also masking the vocal in the upper registry of the acoustic (8k range? though, it does enhance the cymbal nicely up there so judgment call. Did you boost/ give "air" to the acoustic b/c it sounds pretty bright on the top end).
 
PS. Is this song Dorian Mode during the verse? It has that Scarborough Fair/Wreck of Edmund Fitzgerald feel (I think these are modal?).
 
Good changes. One more little tweak: I think the vocals could come up a little bit.

Cool.
 
This mix is really improved,the lead guitar fits nicely and gives this crescendo feeling, breaking smoothly into the chorus and bridge.

I'd take care a bit more of the low end from the acoustic and the piano, there is some muddiness on both headphone and speakers. I wouldn't spark too much yet with brightness before low end and low mids are taking care. the acoustic feeling suit this song very well

Lowering the level or tame a bit on the bass could possibly help,worth a try but nothing drastic , I feel that for this song the piano ,vocal and vocal arrangements are the main lead of the song from the 0.44 mark. mix wise Nola and Robus are better suited than i am, and they are usually spot on.

really looking forward to hear more and great improvement on this one :)
 
Nola said:
To me that acoustic is much too dominant for a busy mix. It needs to be multed with an aggressive HP at 250-300hz. The piano sounds like it's overlapping with the bass. You need to clean house in that 200-400 range with some aggressive EQ if you want them all to be in there. I'd lower the acoustic in volume either way. It's also masking the vocal in the upper registry of the acoustic (8k range? though, it does enhance the cymbal nicely up there so judgment call. Did you boost/ give "air" to the acoustic b/c it sounds pretty bright on the top end).
Click to expand...

I've got a high pass around 200 Hz on the acoustic, as well as some scooping in the 250-35o range. No 'air - it's a Taylor ;)

Nola said:
PS. Is this song Dorian Mode during the verse? It has that Scarborough Fair/Wreck of Edmund Fitzgerald feel (I think these are modal?).
Click to expand...

Modes-schmodes, don't know anything about modes - I play what sounds right in my head. Verse is Dm - Dm/C - Bb - Am (2x) Gm - F - Gm - F - C.

Crycookie said:
This mix is really improved,the lead guitar fits nicely and gives this crescendo feeling, breaking smoothly into the chorus and bridge.

I'd take care a bit more of the low end from the acoustic and the piano, there is some muddiness on both headphone and speakers. I wouldn't spark too much yet with brightness before low end and low mids are taking care. the acoustic feeling suit this song very well

Lowering the level or tame a bit on the bass could possibly help,worth a try but nothing drastic , I feel that for this song the piano ,vocal and vocal arrangements are the main lead of the song from the 0.44 mark. mix wise Nola and Robus are better suited than i am, and they are usually spot on.

really looking forward to hear more and great improvement on this one :)
Click to expand...

I haven't put any EQ on the piano or bass, maybe that's what's making some mud there.
 
OK, my ears are getting tired, and so am I! Appreciate all the listens and suggestions.

Put a high pass on the piano - boy did that make it pop out of the mix! Turned down its volume just a hair. Scooped some bass out out that muddy area too. No other changes.
Mix #4
 
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