One track at a time, drums first. How?

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Possum Bobby

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So glad to find this forum. I've been a home recorder for years. Tascam cassette machine circa 1984, Roland VS machines from the 90s. Old school. Simple stuff. One man show. ...I quit 5-10 years ago and now play bass in a gigging band. But newly retired, I am back, using a Roland VS 2480.

So, my query regards live acoustic drum tracks.

Years back, my method was: Start with a drum machine. Add a rhythm guitar. Add a scratch vocal track. Then, bass. THEN, I'd go back and try to replace the drum machine with live acoustic drums. I found this extraordinarily difficult. I feel that it reversed the natural order of things. Now the drummer was following the 'band', rather than the band relying on the drummer for timing. This was maddening. Perhaps a really good drummer could do it. I found that, even if I managed to get fair results after painstaking efforts, it still always felt swampy. I was always behind the beat. Surely this method is problematic, due to the nature of drums as a foundational tool. You cannot add the foundation at the end.

So how do y'all handle this sort of thing?

It would seem that two people, at least, are required. 1) A drummer, and 2) Another to play the chords and sing a bit to provide the song's structure for the drummer, later replacing the vocal and guitar proto-tracks with better stuff.

How is it done?
 
Don't write drum tracks.

Write / record your songs with a click track, and then let you and / or your drummer come up with the appropriate drums.

This is the downside of multitrack recording. Unless you have a 'band' and are recording and playing live all the time, then you have to
make compromises.

A simple click track is what has worked for me, but you do need to envision a bit, and you do need a good drummer. No getting around that.

EL
 
I record the whole band live, maybe without the vocal if they know the song well enough, and replace as needed. My goal is to get a complete drum take to build on. I'll generally have the bass, guitars etc. go direct at this stage, then mic them for real takes.

But this all requires having enough tracks.
 
If you can play guitar/sing to a click track, even roughly, then lay down the song, then put on headphones and play the drums to the scratch track with the click. Then you can lay down the bass, guitar and vocal tracks. You might need the scratch track for the bass and guitar. Once you have them down, you can mute the scratch track, or dump it, whatever floats your boat.

If you can get someone to play guitar direct in, you can get the drums cleanly and then do the guitars over. It might give a better feel, and you won't get bleed.

I've done it both ways.
 
Record the song with the whole band, but make sure you have the separation. With a click, of there is a need, or build a tempo track to the drums afterwards, then you use this for the overdubs - Often I discover the live drums, even if a bit wayward have the sparkle and spontaneity playing to a click doesn't have. Replace everything bar the drums - assuming the drummer was solid.
 
I record the acoustic or backing guitar tracks first. I can't play to a click very well, so I just fix the guitar tracks timing in the DAW. Then I record the vocals, add the drums and bass (real or the computer). After I'm happy with the composition, I add any other parts, lead, etc. All I try to do at this point is get good performances.
 
Possum Bobby said:
So how do y'all handle this sort of thing?

It would seem that two people, at least, are required. 1) A drummer, and 2) Another to play the chords and sing a bit to provide the song's structure for the drummer, later replacing the vocal and guitar proto-tracks with better stuff.

How is it done?
Click to expand...
Drum Machines don’t really work for scratch tracks unless you have good drummer - have the drummer lay down the scratch track - but in the case of ScratchDrum Machine tracks - the drummer has to be good - and locked in - otherwise you get what you’ve got.
 
Drummer goes first--it's especially easy in our case, since he wrote the songs. He knows exactly what to play. If I'm working on my own stuff, then I work out the song on acoustic guitar, then play to a click or some kind of simple beat, then vocals, then I massage the beat the click, adding a drum kit and going from there. Adding electric and acoustic guitars to the mix (outside of the basic acoustic)too early always fails. For me, the vocal has got to go in early on.
 
I record a very basic scratch drum track to play along with and also to get an idea of what the other tracks sound like with drums. I really like playing drums with the other instruments so recording drums as one of the last things isn't an issue. The more you do it the better you get at playing in time.
 
I use a Tascam DP-24.
Using a metronome, I record an acoustic guitar rhythm track. On this track is a scratch vocal.
Then I record another ACG rhythm track, no vocals and intensely well played.
The I add bass.
Then I add the leed vocals and harmonies.
Then I add drums.
Then I export the tracks to Reason where I tune and time them.
Then I will add electric guitar, and piano or organ or what ever else I can before I get sick of the tune.
 
I play everything except for the drums on my recordings, so the way I do it is:

1. Record a demo to a click (usually I use a MIDI drumkit just with a simple kick + snare + hihat). Send this to my drummer friend so he can get the idea. This is the only use for the demo.

2. Go over some drum ideas together and then record the drums. When tracking the drums, I plug my guitar into the mixer as well so we can both hear the drums and guitar in our headphones - basically, we just play the song together a few times.

3. Export the drum stem and scratch guitar. I take them home to my studio and re-record everything to the drum stem. The scratch guitar gets re-recorded too, I only use it for timing purposes.
 
Obviously everyone has their own methods. I typically do a scratch guitar track with a click track first. Then lay down drums. All the while noodling the bass line in my head to follow them and the rhythm.
 
Years ago, before drum machines and VSTi's, there were these albums called Drum Drops. They had complete recorded drum arrangements for different varieties of songs and for a while I wrote to those arrangements, which pretty much kept everything very tight. Afterward, I started programming or playing my own drums. It's just the songs are different when you create from the drummer standpoint or from the complete drum arrangement backwards.... That was in the 80s and 90s. Nowadays people without any knowledge at all can use AI...
 
I lay down the groove with the song, tap it out, get my click. Do the scratch guitar until my click and groove aligns naturally. Usually takes me several takes until I can play to the click without trying. Once I have the natural flow, Click, drums, bass, order usually varies. Even if I lay down a scratch acoustic, once I have the click and groove, I usually delete the guitar and do it totally new (different playing all together).
 
I write the song and develop the lyrics as they will be sung. Then I record the drums first. I don't need much of a guide track, and can often just play through without it.

This is important because the drum phrasing and dynamics will inform how I should approach the other instruments.

If you get a solid drum track everything else should hang on it pretty easily.
 
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