One take,single mic bluegrass recording,compression ?

[funckyfinger]

Somehow the idea of doing single mic bluegrass style recordings has infected me. I can't help but think that compression would be a huge help. I'm looking to smooth the sound a bit and hopefully just give the sound that touch it needs. I've read all the compression advice I can find and have a idea of what it does but am not real sure were to start. What might be a good general setting to start with for this.I do have Cakewalk with it's bundled compression to mess with but am considering an FMR unit as well.Any advice helpfull.

 

[Nick98338]

I've done a lot of "stage" work around a single mic. We needed to put a compressor between the mic and the mixer, so I would suggest that, in recording, you put a hardware compressor between the mic and the Cakewalk. Just a guess here, but using the compression in the software is going to produce a lot of "pumping", because of the huge dynamic range of single mic work. I suspect that the compression needs to be done during the recording, not after.

 

[Tim Gillett]

Compression is compression. Pumping is pumping. Doesnt matter whether it's a hardware or a software compresser.
If your gear can handle the dynamics of the live recording, better do the compression later because then you're not locked in. Keep your options open would be standard advice, I think.
There is no one compression setting that will fit all. It depends on the recording and which bits you need to smooth out. Maybe try a 3:1 with a threshold that gives you the minimum reduction and then carefully try lower settings of the threshold from there.

With only a single track, you risk audible pumping anyway because it compresses all that you have which is one track. That's why better to only compress down the higher, more strident levels rather than at all levels. Otherwise you will get annoying pumping, even within the quiet sections. Threshold level is where I think a lot get it wrong.

Having said that, the best control of dynamics in that situation will be done by the skill of the performers themselves as they control their own levels by where they stand. I'd consider compression as fine tuning of an otherwise good performance. It's not meant to be a cure all for bad balancing of instruments and voices.

Tim

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Somehow the idea of doing single mic bluegrass style recordings has infected me. I can't help but think that compression would be a huge help.

Are you basing that thought on actual trails of recording w/o compression, or on an educated hunch by thinking about it before-hand?

If you're talking a bluegrass band, something like a 4-piece (fiddle, banjo, guitar and bass) along with 2- to 4-part harmony vocals, you might want to consider trying it first w/o compression just to see what you get first. It may not work, but it'll give you an idea of where you're coming form so you know what you have to do to get you where you want to go.

Experienced bluegrass bands should be pretty used to working showcase parts live with only one or two mics. As such they often have a physical technique of knowing how to share the mic for vocals and how to actually shift their positions to put the showcase instrument nearest the microphone during the couple of lines while that instrument is featured. It's like a version of working the mic on a grand scale, and it tends to self-compress the presentation somewhat.

Add to that the typical bluegrass song arrangement of a rather dense combination of string finger picking, even-tempered strumming, and bowing, with the vocals riding over that, and you should have a somewhat natural mix of interesting dynamics within a fairly tame overall envelope. I don't envision there being a whole lot of wild peaks to have to tame (though I make no guarantees .) I'd think that the first concern would be to keep the vocals in line and to make sure they don't trampoline too hard on the instruments.

As such, if compression is actually needed, I might look at one of two extremes just to see what they do, and improv from there. First I'd try a light compression (<2:1) at a medium threshold, somwhere around the RMS level, say, just to glue the upper half of the dynamics a bit. Second is I might try leaving the internal dynamics pretty much alone (the idea of compressing finger pickin banjo just does not thrill me), but throw some soft-knee medium compression (2:1 - 3:1 or so) at a higher threshold that just grabs the loudest vocals and keeps them from getting away.

This is all guess, as I personally would not want to track bluegrass without at least 2 or 3 mics myself (one vocal mic minimum, one lower or seperate instrument mic minimum for banjo and guitar, and optionally one OH mic pointing down at the fiddle.)

G.

 

[funckyfinger]

Thank you for the very in depth ideas.

G.
Yes the vocals seem to be a problem area. I've tried different mic positions but it seems to be hard to get the right balance. I can get it pretty close to what I want but I was hoping compression would take me that final inch or two to get where it needs to be. The 3:1 and 2:1 compression suggestions helped . I was using the presets and they were more like 8:1 and 14:1 or higher. I still have a bunch of experimenting to do.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

I was using the presets and they were more like 8:1 and 14:1 or higher. I still have a bunch of experimenting to do.

Yikes, that's pretty heavy compression that's bordering on limiting. You'll probably find that the times you need to take your compressor that high are nowhere near as often as just a little gentle smoothing or glue at lower compressions, especially for more acoustic and organic presentations such as bluegrass.

As Tim G. said earlier, threshold is often the key as much as the compression ratio. It's really impossible to consider one without the other. Just to say 2:1 compression has no specific meaning if the threshold level is not factored in as well; 2:1 with a threshold of -6dB (just for example) will have an entirely different effect than 2:1 with a threshold of -18dB.

I know you've said that you've heavily read up on compression. Maybe you've already read my little treatise on it. If so, I hope it helped. But if not click the link in my signature for a fairly detailed explanation of basic compression theory and techniques. It might help you out a bit.

G.

 

[Treeline]

You might be putting the cart before the horse here. My (few) single mic bluegrass / acoustic recordings have been in live situations and I'd echo Tim Gillett's suggestion that a primary factor will be the band's skill and choreography in positioning itself appropriately for a single mic. I had very good results using a SP C3 LDC set on omni position, about head height, and with an experienced acoustic band on stage. It really was something to see these guys move in and out of the mic's range; I was pretty much along for the ride. Compression came later and was used sparingly.

But if I had it to do over again I'd feel more comfortable with a set of mics at chest level under the omni for a quasi - decca tree.