One of the coolest things I saw in media today

The International Court of Justice demanded that Israel cease all attacks in Rafah area. The IDF is like šŸ¤£šŸ˜‚, same response the gave when Biden cautioned them.
 
Another ā€˜tragic mishapā€™ of 40 Palestinian citizens killed in Rafah. I notice a lot of liberal media and protesters seem to be left leaners; I am not, but wrong is wrong and Iā€™m not afraid to speak up when I see something like that and voice my opinion. In Israelā€™s defense there were allegedly two high value Hamas targets that were killed as part of the attack, and casualties are a statistic of war. But the starvation and kill first, make apologies later is not a good strategy. U.S. did it in Afghanistan and Iraq so shame on us, but the world should learn from mistakes. Iā€™m anti-Hamas and support Israelā€™s right to seek and destroy, but not to starve and slaughter innocent civilians.
 
Guess maybe I shouldā€™ve titled this thread Israel-Gaza Conflict.
Biden is speaking now and there seems to be some progress (finally) on a 3-phase proposal endorsed by Egypt, Qatar and Israel to resolve the conflict. Iā€™m skeptical because I know Israel does NOT want a Palestinian State, but allegedly that is addressed in the treaty; though I doubt it is guaranteed. At LEAST there is progress being made. So many conflicts in the world. Reminds my of Salazzo in GF Iā€¦ā€I donā€™t like violence, Tom. Iā€™m a business man, and blood is a big expense.ā€
 
The vile, brutal attack on Israel was conducted by the elected leadership of Gaza - comparing Israel's response to the Vietnam clusterfuck action of the US government or the actions of the Nazis is absurd.

How "innocent" are those who become collateral damage? Hamas visited this upon them - so where's the widespread anti-Hamas movement from Gazans? Where are the examples of them getting rid of Hamas or ratting them out to Israeli forces?

Israel's efforts to tear out the problem by the roots are completely justified.
 
I donā€™t disagree with a lot of what you said, except for the way Israelā€™s government has executed the goal to destroy Hamas and the innocent civilian lives lost, not just by aerial or ground attacks but but starvation and lack of medical aid.

US committed similar atrocities in Afghanistan and itā€™s sad to hear stories of a few people I know there who fought on the ground, but thatā€™s not an excuse for other nations to follow that example. Israel has gone beyond effective means to achieve their goal turning into an almost personal vendetta in doing so. I can even understand and empathize with that, but Hamas put themselves into power under the guise of a free election in 2007 to replace the corrupt and ineffective Palestinian govt at the time. I strongly believe this effort to destroy Hamas is justified but likewise believe it was and is wrong to destroy every civilian life with impunity as part of the response. Itā€™s a tough situation because rumors (and evidence) of aid being funneled to Hamas likely has some truth behind it but there are less atrocious solutions that couldā€™ve been implemented in doing so to achieve the same result. My big picture fear is this: Israel, which was hated in general by Arab nations (most former Ottoman Empire) has now given some truth to current and future generations of their brutality against Arabs. The two state solution shouldā€™ve happened years ago as treatied, but did not. Now it is a virtual impossibility. And the US not taking stronger action to tone Israelā€™s counter-offensive down to limit civilian casualties just feeds a new generation of Islamic extremists patiently planning attacks on our soil, and easily done with an open border that allows them in.
 
Seeker of Rock said:
I donā€™t disagree with a lot of what you said, except for the way Israelā€™s government has executed the goal to destroy Hamas and the innocent civilian lives lost, not just by aerial or ground attacks but but starvation and lack of medical aid.

US committed similar atrocities in Afghanistan and itā€™s sad to hear stories of a few people I know there who fought on the ground, but thatā€™s not an excuse for other nations to follow that example. Israel has gone beyond effective means to achieve their goal turning into an almost personal vendetta in doing so. I can even understand and empathize with that, but Hamas put themselves into power under the guise of a free election in 2007 to replace the corrupt and ineffective Palestinian govt at the time. I strongly believe this effort to destroy Hamas is justified but likewise believe it was and is wrong to destroy every civilian life with impunity as part of the response. Itā€™s a tough situation because rumors (and evidence) of aid being funneled to Hamas likely has some truth behind it but there are less atrocious solutions that couldā€™ve been implemented in doing so to achieve the same result. My big picture fear is this: Israel, which was hated in general by Arab nations (most former Ottoman Empire) has now given some truth to current and future generations of their brutality against Arabs. The two state solution shouldā€™ve happened years ago as treatied, but did not. Now it is a virtual impossibility. And the US not taking stronger action to tone Israelā€™s counter-offensive down to limit civilian casualties just feeds a new generation of Islamic extremists patiently planning attacks on our soil, and easily done with an open border that allows them in.
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So I guess Palestinians aren't dancing in the streets now like they did after the October attack or after 9/11?

Can you point to any source that suggests Gazans don't support the actions of Hamas? Including Hamas hiding under hospitals etc. We can assume Gazans who participated in the October attack and are hiding hostages or their corpses support Hamas.

What specifically do you think Israel should do to end Palestinian attacks on Israel?

How do you feel about the US nuking Japan in WWII?
 
brassplyer said:
What specifically do you think Israel should do to end Palestinian attacks on Israel?
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Destroy the Hamas organization, but thatā€™s only going to breed a new organization of radical extremists under a different name. I would say that Israel shouldnā€™t extend such an authoritative suppression over Palestinians and shouldā€™ve keep good in the promise of a two-state nation long ago. Radicals will be radicals but if you lessen the reasons to be extreme and go to extreme measures it may be a something to consider.
 
As for nuking Japan, that was the first and only time nuclear weapons of mass destruction were used in combat. The positive side is that it saved thousands of American and Japanese lives as we and Russia (ally at the time) were both poised for a mass invasion. Thousands of Japanese lives lost but many of those were going to be lost with the two major powers and their planned ground invasion. It happened and Truman gave the ultimate permission and directive. At the time there were several other nations in the Allieā€™s who were threatened by the Japanese and their relentless aggression, a whole nation with a formidable and effective army, navy and Air Force, not 125 square mile territory. Iā€™ve seen documentaries on Oppenheimer and the Manhattan Project, interviews with the men who delivered the bombs by B-29 and those in the USS Indianapolis. If I were alive back then I would have unconditionally support it. In retrospect I still do, but am aware that that led to the nuclear arms race that came close to nuclear war and also the widespread availability of the tech and we have already set the precedent that they can be and have been used in war. It was a decision our country made with a lot of data to consider and I support it as such, though it is history and wouldnā€™t matter at this point either way.
 
Israel is giving a press conference. First time I can remember seeing an Israeli with a proper and eloquent British accent but itā€™s working for him. Shalom! Havenā€™t seen this guy before but heā€™s delivering what seems to be good news regarding the latest agreement draft between Israel and Hamas. I couldnā€™t give a ratā€™s ass about Hamas personally but they are technically in control of the Palestinians, so yeah I guess I kind of do. Egypt, Qatar, US and Israel all participated in the latest draft and it sounds fair, in a 3 phase implementation beginning with a cease fire. I think IDF has combed the entire Gaza Strip at this point to their satisfaction with geographically nowhere else to go so it makes sense now to plan steps moving forward. So phase 1 cease fire, phase 2 I need to refresh my memory and phase 3 includes rebuilding Gaza and (hopefully) a recognized Palestinian State. If that is to be I hope (and am sure) there will be a clause or condition for revoking statehood in the event of any future attacks against Israel like on Oct 7 and a new formal government to rule Palestine. Itā€™s encouraging and a sign of progress finally.
 
I guess IDF raided somewhere that hostages were suspected to be held and a bunch of people died. It must be something with getting older that Iā€™m more sensitive to war killings. Sad
 
Good news in the conflict is Saturday IDF conducted a successful recovery mission into Gaza based on inside Intel and was able to retrieve four Israeli hostages being held by Hamas. šŸ¤Ÿ
 
Sad news is the 3-phase plan worked on by Israel, Egypt, Qatar and U.S. is still not agreed on so the killins continue. Shouldnā€™t be too much longer that Israel has searched every area of Gaza so if there are more Hamas left those would be small factions one may think.

Our poor world šŸ˜ž
 
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