One Mic to Amplify Them All

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elbandito

elbandito

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What's a good mic to use in a live application to amplify a four-piece group? Old bluegrass bands used to use one mic in the middle of the stage and the players/singers would work the mic in order to bring certain instruments to the fore... I'm hoping to recreate this. We've got an accordion, acoustic guitar, three vocalists (who double as players), tambourine, harmonica, sometimes a ukelele and some good ol' fashioned footstompin'. Any suggestions?

Oh, and since I mentioned accordion, have any of you had much experience with miking an accordion live? My accordion player doesn't seem to like putting energy into thinking about how to mike his instrument and has decided that what he wants to do is make contact mics and tape them to the squeeze box instead. Personally, I think it sounds horrible - an unacceptable amount of handling noise and terrible reproduction of the box harp's tone, as well as a completely skewed response (that is to say that when the mic is taped to the centre of the piano side, the lowest bass notes and the highest treble notes are significantly quieter than the notes in the middle).

I tried using my LDC Audio Technica AT2020 at a gig and while it worked, it just didn't have the "oomph" that it should have, upon listening to the recording afterwards. I was thinking that a ribbon mic might work nicely but the fragility of a mic like this worries me when thinking about using it in a live application.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated. :D
 
After posting this, I did some more looking about the web and found two pages that might be of interest to anybody else that's thinking about using this method of live amplification.

The first is the page made by a guy in a bluegrass band and has some general tips on how to pull off a performance around one mic - he recommends the Audio Technica AT4033.
New Essex Bluegrass Band single microphone page

The second is a gentleman that seems to be making a mic designed specifically for this purpose... looks like his design will include two outputs! An intersting idea, but I'm not sure why someone would want that feature.
The Big Bluegrass Microphone
 
An AT 4033. In thge olden days they used an RCA 44 ribbon mic.
 
Take a look at the Avantone CK-40 HERE.
I've had great success with this microphone!
 
Take a look at the Avantone CK-40 HERE.
I've had great success with this microphone!
 
Dang double posting


HEY! something is wrong with the board again! :D
 
Seems mostly you see a mix of condensors being used, but I'd consider RE20s. Find another mic that keeps it's natural tone front to sides.

elbandito said:
.. My accordion player doesn't seem to like putting energy into thinking about how to mike his instrument and has decided that what he wants to do is make contact mics and tape them to the squeeze box instead. Personally, I think it sounds horrible - ..
Click to expand...
Pick-ups. :rolleyes:
;)
 
A multi-pattern mic, with both figure 8 and omnidirectional options would be
a good choice. With an omni setting, the band can literally surround the mic
on all sides. There are many dual diaphragm Large Diameter Condenser mics
to choose from, such as:

BA-L2 large diaphragm fet

That type can also be used as a standard cardiod mic, for solos, and singers.

Ribbon mics are figure 8, which has the advantage of rejecting sound at the sides.
If you can orient the band in groups to the left and right, you will not be troubled
by audience noise sneaking in from the front. However, ribbon mics tend to roll off
the high end, which may not be considered beneficial to mandolins, fiddles, and
banjos.

HTH,
Noah F.
 
I have a friend in the States who does a lot of work with Bluegrass bands (he's doing the sound and providing gear for a festival in front of 10,000 people in a few weeks) so I asked him.

The four mics he recommends are:

AT4050
Neumann 103
Neumann 102
Blue Bottle (not traditonal looking but quite nice he says)

Hope this helps.

Bob
 
AT4033 is a wide cardioid IMO. Just be careful with feedback. AT4050 would probably do better IMO (flatter EQ).

I've seen an AKG C3000 used for this type of thing. If you're going to be sharing the mic, you need a wide cardioid. At least a mic that doesn't change character off axis. And other concerns. But per anything that's less directional, you've got be careful of where the speakers are relative to the mic.

No ideal on accordion. Aren't those illegal to play in most states? I seem to remember hearing something about both ends of it generating the noise, so you'd probably need two mics to get the whole picture. Or one at a distance since it only makes noise when it moves. Each with their own set of issues.
 
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I've used AT 40-series for just that application, so I can vouch for them. 4033 (for sure) and 4050 (I THINK...) One thing to remember- you can not use stage monitors with condensers (yeah, yeah, I know, there are always exceptions...:rolleyes: ) so your players will need to be adept at listening to the balance of all the other players. Experience BG players are old hat at this, but it's somewhat of a new concept to some others.

Most "electric accordions" are actually just your standard accordion with a small bracket in front of the grill (even though both sides PRODUCE sound, it all comes out the grill) that holds a smallish mic that resembles only the ball and first inch of a SM58. This seems to work just fine for abut 95% of all accordion players.

Q: What's the definition of "perfect pitch?"

A: When you throw a banjo out a second-story window, and it lands square on an accordion!:D
 
My choice would be AKG C414, Audio-Technica AT4050, or Shure KSM44. I agree with Noah, essentially. In the good old days, they used an RCA ribbon and arranged the players in two semicircles on the active sides of the figure of 8. Later on, it became popular to use an omni and put everybody in a circle. You move the people forward and back until you have the right balance, then mark everybody's position on the floor with tape. Then you find how far forward each person needs to step up for their solo to get the right balance, and mark those spots with tape. Then measure all the distances and write them down so you can set it up again. Obviously, a totally different room or even a different instrument can change the distances. If you use a cardioid, arrange in a semi-circle, and as suggested above, the wider the cardioid pattern is, the better. Audio-Technica AT4033, mentioned above, is a Nashville favorite for this. I advise you to wear soft shoes, or better yet, go barefoot. Cowboy boots are right out. Suddenly, the concept of the barefoot singing cowboy will start to make sense. A lot of guys who do this are older, and may have some hearing loss, so let one young guy with good ears (hopefully the audio engineer) set the distances, not some old yahoo with a hearing aid. And yes, I have done this thing, God help me. It sucks being old. I strongly suggest a multi-pattern mic that can do figure 8 and omni. For cheap, CAD M179. For a little more pricey, the three I mentioned above. Good luck, Richie
 
That Avantone CK-40 looks great! But tell me, why go for LDCs rather than SDCs in this situation? Wouldn't I get better rejection if I used two pencils on stage instead? Or is there a particular reason why I'd want a figure 8 or omni thing happening?

As for the Audio-Technica 40 series, I've got a 4040, so I think I'll try that one out before going out and buying the 4033. There are many other LDCs that I'd like to try out before I purchase any more ATs.

Hey, thanks for the tip about the boots! I wouldn't have thought of that. :D
 
Other than feedback issues, rejection is irrelevent. We're talking about one mic here. Look, ma, no bleed. As soon as you start talking about 2 mics, it's a whole different ball game. Then you would use the players in a semicircle and a coincedent (X-Y) array. If you aren't trying to do soloing, no problem. You could use whatever stereo array rejects the most feedback- spaced (observing the 3:1 rule), NOS, ORTF, Jecklin disc, whatever. I wouldn't try a Decca Tree for live sound reinforcement. It just seems like a feedback generator to me. For the 2 mics, I would use a pair of AKG C2000B's, just because they are pretty flat and reject feedback really well. Mostly, that's just because they are the stereo pair I have that rejects feedback well, and is cheap enough to use in a club. You have to make the call. Is it "one mic to amplify them all" or 2 mics to amplify them all differentially? The solution is quite different. For soloing, you can's step up to a spaced pair. And why would you use an omni for this? So you can pretty much forget about off-axis performance. Why would you use a figure 8? In the old days, it's what they had. Now, because the 2 null sides produce excellent rejection, and positioning of the players and the mic's null fields can be used to reduce feedback issues. Also, it's ideal for 2 players doing a vocal harmony to step up at the same time, so neither one is off-axis.-Richie
 
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