Omitting certain frequencies from mic and amp

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pure.fusion

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Hi all,

I'm (relatively) new to recording.

I have read that people (engineers) when they mic up a guitar cabinet, they go through an EQ and remove certain frequencies before it hits the 'tape'.

I can't find the post right now but I have the text.... (I think he was discussing guitar cabs)

"What I'm noticing in my mixes, is that the guitar really seems to be about the 500hz, 1k, 4k range.

I'll take out below 100 and maybe take a little out of 250, but it really seems those other frequencies are what make it sound clear, and cut through as well as leave for everything else."

I ask because although I think I've got an adequate result from my setup, I hear a lot nicer sounds coming from this forum. No doubt it's probably a whole bunch of reasons why, but I thought I'd start with the frequency thing.

Any one comment on this?

FM
 
You want to avoid things being muddy by avoiding the same frequencies as the bass player...I was once told that just not playing the E-A strings will make the whole mix sound better...and that is true most of the time.
 
pure.fusion said:
Hi all,

I'm (relatively) new to recording.
Click to expand...

Awesome! how's it going so far?

I have read that people (engineers) when they mic up a guitar cabinet, they go through an EQ and remove certain frequencies before it hits the 'tape'.

I can't find the post right now but I have the text.... (I think he was discussing guitar cabs)
Click to expand...

Actually your best bet is to get the sound you want right at the speaker/microphone. EQ can be used but it's best to just get the sound you want without having to try to "doctor" it up.

"What I'm noticing in my mixes, is that the guitar really seems to be about the 500hz, 1k, 4k range.
Click to expand...

Yes, Guitars are midrange instruments, those are the general frequencies that should be occupied by guitar in a mix.

I'll take out below 100 and maybe take a little out of 250, but it really seems those other frequencies are what make it sound clear, and cut through as well as leave for everything else."
Click to expand...

No, the high end of guitar frequencies are what give you presence and clarity, the mids are what's going to "cut through"
You're right by taking around 100Hz to make room for the bass and the sub of the kick, but don't suck all of the "meat" out of the guitar tone either.
 
darrin_h2000 said:
You want to avoid things being muddy by avoiding the same frequencies as the bass player...I was once told that just not playing the E-A strings will make the whole mix sound better...and that is true most of the time.
Click to expand...

Well... those are fundamentals but I don't think bass should be limited to 5 notes. Guitar and bass should compliment each other rather than one being dominated by the other IMHO.
 
darrin_h2000 said:
I was once told that just not playing the E-A strings will make the whole mix sound better.
Click to expand...

And if you believe that statement then I forgot to wish you a happy birthday yesterday. I'm sure that someone will be along soon to sell you some swamp land, the Brooklyn Bridge, or maybe a whale watching cruise on the Great Lakes.
 
Kingofpain678 said:
Awesome! how's it going so far?
Click to expand...

What a warm welcome!

Yeah, it's going well. Very exciting. I did a bit or recording about 20 years ago and things have changed quite a bit ( No $hit ! ).

Like most people (i imagine, I hope) I have about 10 part-songs (written some time over the last 6 months) with the backing in various states of rediness for some tastefully overdrivin guitar to glide over the top.

I'm looking forward to doing this, and I'll be doing it soon. Thus my sudden interest in tone/drive/sustain. (I've actually never owned an amp with 20 years of guitar playing)

I've been bleeding money recently; I've purchased:-

- External EMU 0404 - which sounds a lot cleaner than my 4-track ;)
- a descent 6 string bass
- an SM57
- A Fender Blues Jr (quality of tone per cost was good here)
- A re-fret of my poor old tired Jem77FP

.. and looking to buy a fixed bridge toneful guitar soon.

I've been lucky to borrow a condensor mic and some other stuff to experiment with, which has been fun.

As soon as I noticed this forum I thought I'd found home. There's lots of stuff being talked about here that's now really relevant to me, and I can't get into fast enough!

My question here was actually querying the most basics of basic concepts - whether or not I should have an EQ in between my '57 and the sound card to cut frequencies (if needed), or whether ir not that can be done post recording.

Cheers,
FM
 
ocnor said:
And if you believe that statement then I forgot to wish you a happy birthday yesterday. I'm sure that someone will be along soon to sell you some swamp land, the Brooklyn Bridge, or maybe a whale watching cruise on the Great Lakes.
Click to expand...

I have to believe that statement...it came from a very prominant engineer...
 
darrin_h2000 said:
I have to believe that statement...it came from a very prominant engineer...
Click to expand...

main.php
 
Dont even ask Oncor...I read it in "Musician" Magazine over 20 years ago.
 
I'm betting you "old" folks know a heap about tone......

I'll have to watch out for your posts.

FM
 
pure.fusion said:
What a warm welcome!

Yeah, it's going well. Very exciting. I did a bit or recording about 20 years ago and things have changed quite a bit ( No $hit ! ).

Like most people (i imagine, I hope) I have about 10 part-songs (written some time over the last 6 months) with the backing in various states of rediness for some tastefully overdrivin guitar to glide over the top.

I'm looking forward to doing this, and I'll be doing it soon. Thus my sudden interest in tone/drive/sustain. (I've actually never owned an amp with 20 years of guitar playing)

I've been bleeding money recently; I've purchased:-

- External EMU 0404 - which sounds a lot cleaner than my 4-track ;)
- a descent 6 string bass
- an SM57
- A Fender Blues Jr (quality of tone per cost was good here)
- A re-fret of my poor old tired Jem77FP

.. and looking to buy a fixed bridge toneful guitar soon.

I've been lucky to borrow a condensor mic and some other stuff to experiment with, which has been fun.

As soon as I noticed this forum I thought I'd found home. There's lots of stuff being talked about here that's now really relevant to me, and I can't get into fast enough!

My question here was actually querying the most basics of basic concepts - whether or not I should have an EQ in between my '57 and the sound card to cut frequencies (if needed), or whether ir not that can be done post recording.

Cheers,
FM
Click to expand...

Great! The emu is a good buy ;) I personally use the emu1212m. The only complaint I have is I wish it were pro-tools compatible and I wish it had a simpler user interface.

Fire away any question you might have and the good folks of the guitar forum (or any other forum) will help you out best they can.
Of course the answers you will get will vary in intelligence starting with the simple answers (me) to the incredibly in-depth answers (Mshilarious).

That mshilarious is one smart fecker I tell ya what :mad:

Oh, and the new guy always buys the beer ;)
 
I took the E and A strings off and sure as hell my guitar sounded better!

And 4 strings is more than enough to figure out anyways.
 
darrin_h2000 said:
You want to avoid things being muddy by avoiding the same frequencies as the bass player...I was once told that just not playing the E-A strings will make the whole mix sound better...
Click to expand...

Likely all that's needed is to add a little context. The more going on the more chance for overlap. As the parts add up it can go two ways; You can fuss with it more to make it fit, or let the density go up.

So given lots of players/layers and your roll is not to add to the full stroke' wall of sound/mush problems –then you play less and more compact.
And that is true most of the time.
 
Ok so pulling it back on topic...

Okay, so pulling it back on topic....

How many of you that don't have an engineer capture your sound, run an eq after the mic to filter out frequencies before if it recorded?

I've heard some nice sampes online and I'd liek to find out what people are most often doing. It may be nothing more that putting a mic in front of their amp and being done with it.

Currently, I've miced up and recorded a few tracks over my backing (really to test out me amp sound and what it will (or more likely won't) do for me and in Cubase I've applied a small amount of compression, some delay (for this particular song only) and some reverb - in that order.

This seems to be pleasing to the ear.

Would this be on par with what you guys are doing? Close? Pluto?

FM
 
pure.fusion said:
I hear a lot nicer sounds coming from this forum. No doubt it's probably a whole bunch of reasons why, but I thought I'd start with the frequency thing.
Click to expand...

You are on the right path.....

Unless something sounds real bad at the start and needs to corrected...avoid EQ'ing anything until you have ALL you tracks recorded and begin mixing them together.

Listen to the sound coming from the amp and get that sounding how you like it (put your head lower, roughly where the mic would be). Record that.
Then shape it later on depending how it it sits in the mix with all the other tracks.

It takes some to time to figure out how all that works together...try different setups...see how they translate later on in the mix.
You will find ones that work for you.
 
darrin_h2000 said:
I have to believe that statement...it came from a very prominant engineer...
Click to expand...

I don't doubt that a really prominent engineer told you that.

However, really sit down and think about that for a second. Sure, for some genres and styles, that's great advice. If you're in a funk band, yeah, more often than not you're going to want to stay off the bass strings and limit yourself to sharp, staccato, syncopated chord stabs. Or if you're playing jazz and you've got a great, active bassist, leaving him some extra room to explore and making the hamony a bit more ambiguous by dropping the root is a wonderful idea.

But, rock and roll? Hard rock? Metal? So many electric-guitar-driven genres are all about riffing on the low strings of the guitar. What would "Pride and Joy" have sounded like had Vaughan decided not to play anything on the E and A? Can you picture "Enter Sandman" up an octave? Or the absolutely crushing pair of main riffs in Opeth's "Blackwater Park" if the producer told the band not to play on the lower two strings? Or god forbid you (like myself) play a seven string guitar tuned to B - something like Dream Theater's "Lie" without that grinding low string riff just doesn't work. Or hell, even songs that do start out with the guitar playing well out of the bass range - say, Tool's "Schism," for instance - when the guitar stops pedaling a light muted riff off the high D and drops down to power chording on the open (low) D, it sounds massive, because of the way the tune is arranged.

It's great advice as a musician and as a producer to think about the arrangement of a tune rather than just how to mix everything together, and to try not to let parts step all over each other. But that's not as simple as telling the guitarist to simply not play low notes. Consider the type of music Nile Rogers was recording and producing, think about what that worked for his genre and his style, certainly. But don't extrapolate that to all guitarists and styles.
 
So, there's no frequency mod I cannot do *after* I've recorded a track?

I don't need to prevent certain frequencies from hitting the disk? It's always an option to change it afterwards?

FM
 
Yes...with most decent mixers and/or DAWs...you can do all kinds of individual EQ to your tracks when you're listening to and mixing them together
 
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