Okay...I have played with my new TB10...so I thought I would start another thread...

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Outlaws

Outlaws

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Well. Were to start.........


I hooked it up with my mic. Recorded my acoustic guitar.
Then I plugged into my Roland and used its preamp instead.

The difference you ask?


AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



































I couldn't hear a damn thing. It sounded EXACTLY the same.:eek:



Any thoughts or suggestions on how to hear this massive difference. How clean everything is supposed to sound. How all these highs are going to jump out. All the .... fuck it.


What the fuck happend?
 
I think this is where RecordingEngineer is supposed to jump in...........



hint hint.........




Hello?

Anyone?

?????????????????
 
first off, mics, cables, the room, and the source you are recording are going to be factors here also.....describe those for us and post a high quality .mp3 clip of both.......

one think i may mention is that to the untrained ear, you may not notice track vs. track the difference......i fall into this category of ears:) I think it would be more apparent if you were to record 16 tracks with the VS pres vs. 16 tracks with the DaviSOund.......
 
That's an interesting point...

..and one that's been the centre of many a heated discussion on many recording BBS - high-end vs budget pre-amps...how big is the difference?

I'll try to give my humble opinion and my reason for forming it, without starting a war here ;) . Once upon a time, I was using a budget pre-amp retailing around the $150 mark. In conjuntion with a RODE NT2 mic on vocals, it sounded, well, OK. It was certainly an improvement on using only the in-built pres on my mixer. Later on, I became the proud owner of an Avalon 737. Yes there was a difference, but at the start I was scratching my head wondering why it didn't sound 10 times better, because it cost 10 times as much! It certainly sounded (excuse the cliches) fuller, warmer, deeper, wider, bigger, punchier, smoother, etc, etc, but it didn't sound $2000 bucks better than the budget unit I had used in the past. The difference was subtle, and one had to listen extemely carefully, preferably through a set of cans, to hear these subtleties. All in all, I could honestly say that the sound improvement on an individual sound source was around 10 to 20% better with the Avalon. Hmmm....

Then I used the Avalon to re-recorded a song that I'd done a few days earlier with the budget pre. Snare through the Avalon, Kick through the Avalon. Keys through the Avalon, Bass through the Avalon, Guitars throuh the Avalon, Vocals through the Avalon. Once I'd finished the mixdown I couldn't believe my ears. When I compared the 2 units it became clear to me where the extra money had gone. The difference was astounding. That "pro" sound I'd been searching for all those years, coming close to, but never quite achieving, was suddenly there. The admittedly iniitially disapointing"only" 10% to 20% improvement on each individual sound source, on each track, seemed to add up to an improvement of 100 to 200% percent on a total mix. I can't describe the feeling I got. It's a bit like your first orgasm all over again. I do know that my hands started to sweat and my heart was beating like I'd just run 110 yards in 9 seconds flat.

I ordered a second Avalon a month later...took me almost a year to pay off :D

Now a few years later, one valuable lesson I learnt is that THE most important part of the entire signal chain is a high quality front end (i.e. mics and pre-amps). I found that a lot of high-end pre amps will expose deficiencies in some "budget" condensor mics. One can achieve a pro sound with an average mixer, digital tape or DAW, as long as one has a pro quality front end......although it helps if you can mix a bit too ;) It's almost impossible to get that pro sound without a great front end to your signal chain. Unfortunately for most of us, a decent front end doesn't come cheap :( Therefore, bite the bullet, sacrifice where you can, and accept no compromise. You'll just be upgrading later anyway....

...just my mad rumblings of an explaination

Dingo :)

RAW - The Recording Audio Website - [url]www.Recording-Audio.com[/URL]
 
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Re: Okay...I have played with my new TB10...so I thought I would start another thread...

Outlaws said:

I hooked it up with my mic. Recorded my acoustic guitar.
Then I plugged into my Roland and used its preamp instead.

The difference you ask?

I couldn't hear a damn thing. It sounded EXACTLY the same.:eek:
Click to expand...


OWWW!!!! OUCH!!!!!!
 
You don't hear a difference???

Well, I think you should hear a difference. Here is a little interview with Tim Farrant talking about how a good mic pre should sound: www.piemusic.com/mp/buzz.html

Now, whether that difference is small or big... I don't know what to tell you. In doing A/B comparisons, I find the FMR RNP does not generally kick butt but it's a solid mic preamp when actually tracking. My suggestion is to get to it and see how the new mic preamp impacts on your work.

Steve
www.mojopie.com
 
Outlaws said:
I think this is where RecordingEngineer is supposed to jump in...........



hint hint.........




Hello?

Anyone?

?????????????????
Click to expand...

I have to say that I have read so many posts about [insert product here] is SO much better and sounds 100 times than so-an so product. Some people tend to go waaay overboard here.
But, you waited so long and paid so much, you have to take time and experiment with it. I can't say that anything I bought on the recommendation of a few people sounded an y better that the previous stuff I had. I hope it gets better with experimentation.

Good Luck!
 
ozraves said:
...In doing A/B comparisons, I find the FMR RNP does not generally kick butt but it's a solid mic preamp when actually tracking...www.mojopie.com
Click to expand...
Steve,
I don’t know about that... On some form way back when, I found a simple little mp3 vocal ditty you did to compare the RNP to the VTB1 and the difference was night and day. As a matter of fact, I ran across it just last night as I was searching through some of my files. There’s a huge difference.

Outlaw,
I agree with Steve, you should hear a difference (really a BIG difference if DaviSOund is really as good as they say – although I’m beginning to doubt it for this and other reasons...). If I were you, I’d get something else (RNP, Grace 101, John Hardy M1, etc...) with a return policy and try it against the Roland and DaviSOund. If there’s a difference then, keep it and sell the DaviSOund, which shouldn’t be difficult since there’s supposedly a waiting list for them.
 
One more thing... Go here: http://www.thelisteningsessions.com/home.htm and download the mp3s using the same mic but different preamps. I pull them up in the same directory on Winamp so I can switch between them quickly. Study those for a while and you’ll definitely hear differences!
 
ozraves said:
Well, I think you should hear a difference. Here is a little interview with Tim Farrant talking about how a good mic pre should sound: www.piemusic.com/mp/buzz.html
Click to expand...

Interesting. Tim uses the same analogy as Dan Richards (the "pinpoint in space"), but in the exact opposite way - Tim finds that a better pre creates a larger point in space, not a smaller one (as Dan has suggested). In the end, I guess it's all just "dancing about architecture".
 
Flatpicker said:
Steve,
I don’t know about that... On some form way back when, I found a simple little mp3 vocal ditty you did to compare the RNP to the VTB1 and the difference was night and day. As a matter of fact, I ran across it just last night as I was searching through some of my files. There’s a huge difference.

Click to expand...

You got me on that particular A/B. I was more talking about comparing it to top end units and didn't make myself clear.
 
jslator said:
Interesting. Tim uses the same analogy as Dan Richards (the "pinpoint in space"), but in the exact opposite way - Tim finds that a better pre creates a larger point in space, not a smaller one (as Dan has suggested). In the end, I guess it's all just "dancing about architecture".
Click to expand...

An A Designs MP1 will put a big image in the monitors. And, you could record a whole project with it and do very well.

And, an FMR RNP will put a tighter image in the monitors. And, you could record a whole project with it and do well.

I just know what I like when I hear it.
 
Hey Gidge,

The room, mics, cables and everything else should have nothing to do with it. Everyting was the exact same. I Have my mic on a mic stand. I plugged into the davisound, adjusted the gain to about -6 to -4 peak. Then recorded.

Then I unplugged from the davisound in and went into the Roland input. I adjusted the gain to a -6 to -4 peak also. Then recorded.

I cannot tell the difference. I have nice headphones. But I litterally thought I was lissening to the exact same preamp.


If you are still interested in buying it, then give me another couple weeks to checkout some other mic pres. Plus I want to do further experiments. Its does look nice, and I didn't loose quality, so thats a plus. Not to mention its ia always nice to have two more mic pres with phantom power....................but damn........
 
Outlaws said:
The room, mics, cables and everything else should have nothing to do with it.
Click to expand...



Then I unplugged from the davisound in and went into the Roland input.
Click to expand...



I have nice headphones.
Click to expand...



Now don't get me wrong here. I'm not defending the Davisound guy, here, by any stretch. But at the same time, I hope you realize there are some issues going on here . . . which I have conveniently quoted/highlighted for you. And unfortunately, the fact that these issues exist is probably an indication that you're not quite ready yet to invest a lot of dough in your mic pres -- that's probably something you should rather be addressing somewhere else down the line. And if I have to explain it to you, then I'm afraid that's even further evidence in and of itself. :D

Best of luck to you!
 
That_Abbott said:
explain it more for the viewers.
Click to expand...


Differences in mic pres is a very subtle thing to detect and appreciate. How can you expect to do it if you're not in an environment or using the proper equipment whereby such differences can be properly heard?
 
chessrock said:
Differences in mic pres is a very subtle thing to detect and appreciate. How can you expect to do it if you're not in an environment or using the proper equipment whereby such differences can be properly heard?
Click to expand...

I agree..sometimes your not gonna hear these things right away all the time..You've gotta tune your ears with critical listening...For me I don't really know a peice of gear{mic or pre..ect.} untill I've found what I DONT like sonicly about it..But thats me ..LOL



Don
 
Well, maybe this is apples and oranges...... But I upgraded from a Behringer mixer to a DMP3 and heard an immediate difference.
On headphones, on consumer computer speakers and on monitors. And from what I've gathered the VS pres are nothing to get excited about. So I think the guy ought to be hearing SOMETHING for that kind of investment. YEMV -Your Ears May Vary.
 
RE needs to post some clips of what he's done with a TLM103 and his DaviSound......the stuff is just awesome.......

you have to take a preamp to its potential to see if its worth it......i dont think youve brought it there........

try it on a vocal or as a bass/guitar DI and you may have a better view to judge....you might just be crappy at recording an acoustic......

im still curious which mic you are using..........
 
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