Ok, i tried a relatively radically approach mixwise for me

  • Thread starter Thread starter Khompewtur
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I agree about the drums being a bit out front and there is some timing issues....

The guitars seem a bit thin and could come up a bit....

Bass is excellent as usual, you got that down cold....

Killer vocals, cool song...:)
 
Kelly5150 said:
I agree about the drums being a bit out front and there is some timing issues....

The guitars seem a bit thin and could come up a bit....

Bass is excellent as usual, you got that down cold....

Killer vocals, cool song...:)

Hahahaha! Oh man i hope for the sake of my last post and today's efforts, that you caught the old mix and not the new one. Well thanks for the listen and feedback Kelly! Much appreciated! :D
 
the guitars sound real good, a little too good/loud that masks the vocal a bit tho. I really dig the bass tone, but again, it gets masked by the guitars on some spots. I think your guitars sound awsome when soloed, but not working perfectly in the mix, maybe some lowcut?

good job, man!

Al
 
I defer to your sensibilities!!

Never would I attack someone's sensibilities - ok, maybe sometimes - but not this time. The kick timing is a lot better for my sensibilities. All in all I like this tune a lot - the vocals are really cool - wish I could sing like that. Guitar tones are nice and raw, too. Now maybe I should listen to the words, eh? (I'm a "Gestalt" listener at first - takes me a few hundred spins to isten to the words.) Nice work, man!!
~Milan
 
Some real nice writing here and I dig the vocals. Very nice playing, too.

Okay, on to the drums. I know you've got a lot of feedback on these already, but here is just my $.02. I didn't really like the sound of them at the beginning of the tune...not sure why...they kind of sounded too out front and not embedded in the mix enough. Also they seemed to be just a tad behind timing wise, almost like they were tracked last...I liked the sound of them better during the chorus when the full arrangement kicks in. They seem to be better mixed during these sections. I know how hard it is recording and mixing the real things, I am struggling with that myself as of late. This is definitely a good start, but maybe just needs a better mix treatment, and probably fixing the timing on them (unless this is the sound you were going for) will make them fit better all around. If this is the sound you were going for, to kind of create a dissonant feeling, then it worked fine and you are on top of your game :D

Really dig the tune itself, and some nice guitar work!

:)
 
Khompewtur said:
Hahahaha! Oh man i hope for the sake of my last post and today's efforts, that you caught the old mix and not the new one. Well thanks for the listen and feedback Kelly! Much appreciated! :D

I think it was the new mix.... hehe...ummmm...

After lstening again, It was mainly the drums at the beginning that were kinda outfront...
but towards the end there still seemed to be some timing issues, it sounded a bit off, kinda of a quirky beat .. :confused:

And the guitar that I thought sounded kinda thin and that could be thickened is the main one that comes in at 1:43 to 2:11.. Maybe its just personal taste, or it could be my speakers?

The other guitar that comes in at 3:22 sounds real good though... killer tone to it too....

Did I mention the vocals and bass were excellent?..:)
 
Khomp,
I listened again and it is better, but...

the drums are still not working for me. I hate to beat a dead horse and I know you have worked hard on this and have put some sreious time into it, plus you have a artistic vision I understand, but if it was me...

I started writing a bunch of stuff, but PM me if you want me to go through it. I don't want to if you are pleased with it artisically, etc. I know how how hard it is and I don't want to drone on about something you don't want to hear. :)

Still love the song. Guitars and vocals rock! :cool:

Oh, and I won't be offended if I don't hear from you ;) :) It's good music!
 
Ok i remixed it one more time.

I think i got the cymbals more realistic sounding this time around and I brought down the levels in the intro somewhat. This should cover anyone who didn't like the intro cymbals.

Nothing changed in term of the kick/snare/hat patterns from version 2


skids said:
Khomp,
I listened again and it is better, but...

the drums are still not working for me. I hate to beat a dead horse and I know you have worked hard on this and have put some sreious time into it, plus you have a artistic vision I understand, but if it was me...

I started writing a bunch of stuff, but PM me if you want me to go through it. I don't want to if you are pleased with it artisically, etc. I know how how hard it is and I don't want to drone on about something you don't want to hear. :)

Still love the song. Guitars and vocals rock! :cool:

Oh, and I won't be offended if I don't hear from you ;) :) It's good music!

It's totally ok, i'm fully appreciative of your help and there's no denying the truth about the way you respond to something musically. That sort of thing has always got to be respected.

Well i guess I should explain more about how i'm perceiving the approach. In verse 1 i've got basic kick hi-hat. Then for both choruses the first time through each riff i didn't fixate on the down beats (kick) until the 2nd time through. In the 2nd verse you'll see the kick following the bass or the clean guits who are all 'lazy' which is what i want.

There's a kick hit at 2:26 i could shift one to two ms earlier but didn't, this will be my "worst kick hit" of the song. There is a simultaneous snare/kick hit at 2:41 which i moved apart from each other to make the timing seem more human. 3:50 is my favorite part, every drummer i've known has gone off on the cymbals at one point or another so in my head while tracking i was visualizing them doing this.

A1A2 - I've got those guitars doing a dual camelback in eq terms so a lot of lows are gone already. Perhaps it's the 2nd bass that you're thinking of? Theres a 'low' bass and a 'high' bass playing a duet under the 1st verse. Thanks for the review.

MC - I listen to songs the same way, i never realize what the lyrics are unless i'm checking out a print of the lyrics. This will change my perception of a song sometimes years after i've been listening to it so it's always a neat surprise (sometimes good sometimes bad)

Kelly - Kelly, thank you for listening and for the feedback. I tried to address what i could from this thread but you're right, sometimes it's good to recognize what came out positive to begin with. Thanks again for the review comments.

boydrj - I'm hoping 3rd time is the charm for those drums in the beginning. If they sound fake then i'm in trouble.

daf - see u tomorry!

skids - i answered you up top in first comments..
 
Got your PM ;) :D

First off, I forgot to harass you for calling me Mica. Just because my wife accounts for 90% of our talent... :) By the way, it is spelled Mika (pronounced Mee-ka). Look for new stuff from us soon. Well, hopefully, the new baby makes studio time hard. :) Do you know of some EQ device that takes out the frequencies of a crying baby? :D

Alright, on to version 3! Wow. Those intro cymbals sound waaaaaaaaay better. I really did not feel you would be able to get them to sound natural. They sound really good now. Nice work! As for the rest I think it is better and I get where you are coming from. I still would bring down the kick and hi-hat in the quiet parts/verses of the song. They still draw too much attention IMO. Also, there still are some mistimed cymbal crashes, etc. that stick out some as I listen critically. Last, if it were me, I would have the drums form more of a groove, mainly in the verses, but you covered that! ;) :D

Nice work Khomp!
 
Otay, I guess I'm listening to version 2...

Everything is magical and brilliant. But the drums don't work for me.

I didn't sense a timing problem, except one spot in the middle, and that may have just been me not understanding what you were up to. If you're measuring milliseconds, ga-ron-tee I won't hear the diff!

But here are the problems:

1 - intro - I don't think you can play that kind of cymbal part using two samples, unless they're extremely complex multis - it just screamed drum machine at me;

2 - kick and hat sounded good, sometimes it built well - but they didn't seem to be in the same space as the rest of the tune - big lush mix with dry drums playing really sparse parts. Didn't seem to work.

3 - the pocket/groove thing - man, you need to establish and hold a backbeat early on - there's like NEVER any forward motion in this - changes in intensity and a sense of building, yes, but no propulsion - even just a light ride or hihat tap on 2 and 4 would really help move this bad boy along.

This is an excellent excellent tune. Did I mention how excellent it was?:D But your drum track is really holding it back. Apologies I can't listen to version 3 - maybe you fixed what I heard as needing to be fixed.

And thanks for inviting me onto the thread. I'll remind you that my drum tracks often suck, too - so take the input with a giant grain of salt.

Daf
 
wow, those drums are really bad. the song would sound better without them. the timing is really off mostly. the sounds don't even matter. you gotta get the part in sync first khomputer.

i like the other parts but the drums gotta be fixed.
 
Hey skids, sorry actually what i meant to call you was Mika 3 cuz i saw the name on your nowhere page when i went to grab 'Perfectly Clear' for Waldo's demo show. That is the name of your band right? Does the baby make your Mika 4 or did the kid sit in on the jam? :D

They sound real because they are real. I finally dragged all the cymbals off the kit in the living room next to my DAW and just recorded them.

Those mistimed crashes, were probably the few newly added real cymbal hits i mixed in with the canned ones to see if anybody would notice a difference. Honestly when i listen to the isolated drum tracks i don't detect much on an isolated crash, but that section in the beginning, yes huge difference.

Daf - Thanks for coming, i know you thought the drums on Cold City were awful so i figured this would be a step in the right direction.

I think some people are reacting as if I asked "Hey is this a step up from Tito Puente?" whereas all i wanted to know was "Is this a step up from my previous 'organic' style kits"

I probably shouldn't have said anything at all, have you ever noticed how when you specifically point something out people jump all over it?

Anyway, you did hear v2, in v3 i replaced the intro 'canned' cymbals with real ones, but no need to go back i didn't change much else except i brought down the level of the kick/hat in verse one.

As far as pocket / groove thing i hear ya, i tried to go back and do takes where it was just "boom - tat - boom - ta-tat" or something and i just kept wanting to hear it changing up more/syncopating. I'm sure I'll have other tunes where I'll want that, but in this case I just couldn't feel it.

I'm glad you liked the rest of the parts, I guess now i don't fret as much about those it's like i have an area to fixate upon which is good to be aware of. Thank you.

erichenryus - Like i explained earlier.

I edited the takes in the Fruity Loops piano roll, I can see the beats and I can shift by 24/th increments of 16th notes (a shift almost imperceptable to the human ears).

It's not timing issues, you just don't like the way i drum. Sorry to hear it but I'm glad at least you enjoyed the rest.

Maybe go back and check these things you say are off are you sure they're not in unison with a bass line, or maybe synchronized with a guitar riff that's doing the same thing?

Well i modified several things that i felt the clinic was right about in terms of the drums and remixed a few times, but i've listened to this song about 300 times over the last week. The drums sound good to me the way they are now, i don't feel they need to be redone so I guess i'm no longer worried about them.
 
1:42.........


Give me more man.............


make me hurt............ :D

Man, I like the tune a lot.....

Turning it up a notch................



oh yeah...................
cymbals are sureal....

Bring the drum hits up a bit on those killer guit riffs.....

drums stopped before the guit...maybe fade sooner...

Cool man....real cool...
Joe
 
Downloaded the new mix last night but didn't get a chance to listen until now.;)

Drums are better, though still seem "tentative" in a few spots. Maybe that was the kind of feel you were going for. Cymbals in the intro are better too.

The overall mix still seems overcompressed. This is a hot sucker, but a bit flat dynamics-wise. I think you should let it breath more.
 
Khompy,

I fully understand not wanting to go boom-ta-boom-ta-tat. But ones and threes are almost useless as far as forward motion goes - it's the backbeat that gives it life. If you don't want 2 & 4 either (I was thinking mix them real low), I'd suggest listening intently to some rock / fusion drummers who work with more complex structures and see if you can figure out how they do it - Alan White, Bill Bruford, Neil Peart, Lenny White, Carl Palmer, or Cobham if you must...:D - these guys are all about propulsion, but do it in a real sophisticated way...

...this is why I use loops. Feel is so tough to accomplish - the patterns I've tried to build in Reason have all sucked so far (despite some success in the 80s programming my RX-11).

You know I love you, man. If you had invited me to the thread without mentioning the drums I woulda pulled some punches - but the way it developed, I figured you wanted a real critique. Hope you don't mind the candor - you got some real talent, and I'd love to see your drum work come up to the rest of it. Or maybe you could collab with a drummer???

See ya,

Daf
 
Hey Daf, no i would never want you to pull any punches and I didn't find anything you said to be particularly harsh. I agree with and recognise the wisdom in everything you've said and I haven't taken issue with any of your comments. So please don't think i was griping after your review, your thoughts are always appreciated. Some stuff in my previous post was more geared towards some comments that have been just flat out negative, to which i say "i just don't agree with that". And i mean disagree not in a "im in denial about a lousy part way" but in a "i respect your opinion but, no" kinda way.

Anyway, perhaps as i continue writing drums in this way I'll come to understand differently, but have you ever been out a bar someplace or somewhere where there is music playing and you begin to tap your hands and feet along to the music? That's essentially you 'playing along'. Well that's how i approached this, it's the way I felt the rhythm and that's what I have to be true to. I can study the technique of others but ultimately if im writing the part I want it to be my vision.

This song is supposed to move slowly, it was tracked at 68 bpm btw, so when you talk about 2&4 the whole section from 1:00 up to 1:42 has 2 & 4 hi hat's with 1 & 3 kick. I kept percussion light in v2 because i'm introducing new harmonic themes that I wanted as the forefront of the listeners attention span, not overbearing percussion. The chorus "feel" i tried to keep uncertain so that they actually starts on the 2nd time through the chord progression rather than the first, slightly delaying that kick link up gratification.

M. Brane - Thanks for checking out the remix. Those are my first 'live' recorded cymbals, it was pretty fun (at least for me, but maybe not my roomies).:D If it seems hot it's probably me riding the L2 too hard, i've only had it for a couple weeks now and I'm still learning it.

joro - Thanks for listening and commenting Joro. I'm glad you liked the song. I wish in those choruses i could bring everthing up. :D heh!
 
Khompewtur said:
Hey skids, sorry actually what i meant to call you was Mika 3 cuz i saw the name on your nowhere page when i went to grab 'Perfectly Clear' for Waldo's demo show. That is the name of your band right? Does the baby make your Mika 4 or did the kid sit in on the jam? :D

Khomp,
What's this about Waldo's demo show? Give me the scoop. Are you using our song on it? :cool: Wait, did you get our permission? ;) :D

Yes, Mika 3 is our band name. Mika 4? - Hmmmm - Not yet. I figure as soon as Cayden can hold his head up we can get a guitar in his hands. :D

Khompewtur said:
They sound real because they are real. I finally dragged all the cymbals off the kit in the living room next to my DAW and just recorded them.

You tried to pull a fast one, didn't you? :) I was like how did he do that with samples. I mean samples don't work well in that scenario IMO because a drummer would never hit the cymbal in the same place twice. Each hits creates it's own sound. This can be the same problem on long snare rolls. Velocity helps on snares pretty well, but cymbals just have too much variance.

Now the questions begs, why don't you just mic up that kit and play it?! :D
 
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