ok, i have a digital 8-track. FOR GOD'S SAKE TELL ME HOW TO GET HALF-DECENT SOUND!

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flatface

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Ok, i have bollocks all recording knowledge, and bollocks all equipment. I have:

* a digital 8-track recorder
* instruments
* shit mics

... now, i'm pretty sure i'm gonna need at least three GOOD mics, right? is that necessary? bearing in mind that i'm broke?

... and how do i record for a half-decent sound? it doesn't need to be brilliant. so, IN VERY SIMPLE TERMS COS I'VE NEVER DONE IT BEFORE, how do i:

1) record drums? (i think i need at least three mics, right? but where should they go and do they need to be of a certain qulaity or can i use my cheap-ass ones?)

2) record guitars and bass? (just a mic by the amp, right? but at what levels should the amp be at - the levels i'd use when jamming with drums and bass too, or just bedroom-volume, and does this matter or should i just sort it out in the EQ or whatever it is? and again, do i need a good mic or can i get away with it?)

3) vocals? (same - think i do need a good mic for this)

4) overall recording technique (as in, should we play live as a band and get a recording of, say, the drums, then play that back to get a guitar part, maybe re-record the drums, and then add the bass and vocals on top? or what???)


thanks guys, yes i'm a dumbass
 
.... "and" some shit, cheap-ass mics and some instruments (guitar, 15 watt amp, bass, 30 watt bass amp, drum kit. i know, i need a bigger amp)
 
Mics??!!

I think what was being asked is what kind of mics you have.
This is the first link in the signal chain. If you don't have good mics, then no matter what you do, you'll never get good sound. I have a friend that posts here that got me on the right track with this by telling me that the way to get good sound is with good mics and good pre-amps. If you start with that, then the rest of your job gets easier.
This doesn't mean running out and buying the top of the line German mics righ off the bat. You can do very well with some of the less expensive but high quality microphones.
For drums, you'll need a kick mic. A good one. If you can't afford an AKG D112, or an Audix D6, or an ATM25, you can still get good results with an AT Pro 25, a CAD KBM412 or an Audix F12 (these can be purchased in the $50-$70 price range). You'll need a good mic for snare. The Shure SM57 is the workhorse preferred here (about $70-$80) but you could use others including the sennheiser e604 (which can be had with some creative haggling at a GC for about $60) normally they are priced at about $140-$150.
You need some overheads. Small diaphram condensers work real well here. Oktava MC012's at guitar center can be purchased for bout $70 each. I personall y use the Oktava MK219's as overheads (larger diaphram condensers) and was able to snag the pair at a GC for $99. Depending on how big your drumset is, you'll probably want additional mics for your toms. I personally use total of 9 mics to mic my drumset, but I am close mic'ing because of the poor quality of my room.
Your next step is pre-amps. There are many options avaolable to you and they get expensive realquick. You will also need phantom power to run your condenser mics. A cheap solution here is to get an adequate mixer that has okay pr-amps and phatom power. A lot of people will mention the Behringer UB series which is a vaste improvement on the MX series, but I recently got a Yamaha MG series mixer. It is actually less expensive than the Behringer and its pre-amps are nice and silent. I have the Mg 16/4 which gives me 10 mono XLR mic inputs with phantom power on all 10 (I( negotiated a deal at GC and got it for $250). They make much smaller boards, in fact there is one that will suit your needs available for under $100 the Yamaha MG 10/4.
I am also not a rich man, and I am always trying to improve my gear quality, but I do it a step at a time. See if you can get some of your gear used, it will save you money. Don't always buy the gear with all of the added attractions built into it. Simple is better. Usually when the companies are adding all the "bells and whistles" it's because they have scrimped on the important stuff and they are doing it to attract first time gear buyers.
Then be prepared to make a whole lot of really bad mistakes until you begin to learn about all of your gear. Ask a ton of questions, but be specific. People can't really help you if they don't know what gear you have.
 
You need to get *specific*. I've never actually owned a mic by cheap-ass inc., but if you want people to try and help you, they need to know if you have cheap-ass omnis, cardioids, dynamics, condensers, electrets, PZM's, or what the hell. You have asked a question with an answer that goes on for about 10 years. Recording engineering is a profession, like dentistry.
So let's see- you've asked, " I've got a pretty good drill, and a box with an unknown quantity of unknown cheap-ass tools. How do I fix teeth?" Jesus, we don't even know what's wrong with the teeth, and for all we know, you got a fine set of woodworking tools there! First, we need to know what instruments you need to record. Just drums and vocals? Earth, Wind and Fire? Are we talking Charlotte Church or Black Flag here? In what kind of room? (pictures are good). If you think the room doesn't matter, you're already in trouble.
What do you intend to do with the recordings? Make demos, listen to them on your walkman and smile? Win a new artist Grammy? Your needs will vary according to your intentions. What's your realistic budget here? If you don't have one, give up now. Recording costs money. Get over it. Got it? We need to know the make and model of every piece of equipment you own in order to help you. Golly, that's like work, dude. And if you think good recorded sound can just be simply done without work, or a learning curve, and with little or no money, you're already screwed. So if you want help here, list *every* mic you own, and cables, mic stands, computers, stereo eqiuipment, amps, all of it.
Then tell us what you're trying to do and what you can afford to spend, and maybe we can help you.-Richie
 
my god, you lot are so pedantic! and fucking condescending i might add. All i wanted was a little direction as to how to make a very basic recording for a demo, the sound quality can be shit, i just need the various intruments to be at correct levels, and for the recordings to be passable (eg, not amazing tone and depth of sound, just a snare drum to actually sound like a snare drum instead of an overly loud 'thunk', for vocals without an excess of treble, etc). Jesus Christ, get over yourself will you! I don't need great sound quality, just a recognisable band sound, and the make of the mics is not important cos they're cheap tat. But never mind, i'll fucking figure it out myself.

God, haven't you heard Raw Power...?
 
First of all stop being so bloody hostile. Okay, so your mics are "cheap nameless pieces of crap" (I'm paraphrasing). Since you won't tell anyone what mics you have, or how many, I'm going to assume you have lots and that you're lying about their exact nature. So; follow these simple instructions and DON'T contradict me :mad:

  1. Place the SM57 about one to two and a half inches off the head, angled so that it's pointing away from the high hat.
  2. Place your D12 in your kick drum about three inches from the head (this is just a starting position), angled so that the snare and floor tom are in the null.
  3. Place each of your MD421s about two to three inches above the head of the toms (one per tom).
  4. For overheads you can use that pair of KM84s you've got lying around, or the 4038s for a smoother sound. Try the Recorderman method for overhead placement or a co-incident/spaced co-incident set up.
  5. For room mics those two U87s you've got would probably sound nice. Try them about fifteen feet away from the kit to start with
  6. And for the front of the kick perhaps that VM1A that's been gathering dust in your mic locker all these years.
    [/list=1]

    In all cases make sure the mics aren't in the direct line of fire (as it were).

    See, it's easy :p
 
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With your belligerent attitude, the only good sound you'll ever make is the sound of the door hitting your ass as you leave. You are not worth trying to help. You're right, you are a dumb ass. Feel free to get lost.-Richie (engage ignore list Scottie)
 
[ crickets ]

Ho hum.......

you know there are times when it takes almost halfway into a semester before I find out that a student is a dolt, and is just never going to get it.
Flatface is kind of refreshing. There's no mystery
there. Might as well be wearing a sign around his/her neck that says:

"Dolt! Obnoxious! Don't waste your time with me!"

...yes, it's refreshing.
 
flatface said:
i need a bigger amp
Click to expand...

Not true at all. Alot of major guitar recordings are done with small amps (Except Metallica :rolleyes: ). Like kid rock's new album, the guy that plays lead for him did most of his guitar tracks on a practice amp. You just need to get some good mics and then you just may be able to get a decent sound.

I would get:

at least 3 sm57s

2 marshall mxl 603s

1 Akg d112

A nady scm900 (most of their stuff is just shit, but this mic is great.) or a marshall mxl2001.


Z
 
And just to echo what Zeke was saying, smaller 'tube' amps can be better for home recording than big ones, because you don't have to crank them as loud to get that tube saturated sound that all guitarists love! :cool: But there isn't much benifite to having a small solid state amp (except for being easier on your wallet), because you have less headroom and it will distort a lower volumes (and not the good kind of distortion ;)).

I don't know if you're gonna be comin' back or not, but what kind of budget to you have? Do you want to buy any new gear or do you just want to make the best with what you have already?

You can do it either way as I used to make recordings with a computer mic and an old record player with a tape deck... They weren't all that great, but I did it non-the-less! So don't let anyone tell you that you can't, as not everyone has a 5 million dollar budget (or even a $50 budget for that matter :D).

Good luck,
-tkr
 
flatface said:
But never mind, i'll fucking figure it out myself.
Click to expand...

No you won't!

God, haven't you heard Raw Power...?
Click to expand...

Yes I have, and my home recording's began sounding better than that tripe 20 years ago, when I was around 15.
 
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