Nuemann U87 vs sE Electronics SE2200A and other stuff

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I have a Neumann U87, a 1969. I bought it from Hit Factory as they were closing, well from the audio firm liquidating all their gear. It's a cool mic if only for look and vibe. I think any decent quality mic will sound good, but it is after working with it for a long time you learn its real nature. I have a lot of mics that sound as good or better than this Neumann. Better being very subjective. I think it’s more application than " oh, this is a "better" mic".
 
smuffjules said:
Did you compare them BLIND??
It's easy to say "Ah, yes, of course I hear the difference.." when you see the mic you are testing.
You have to put them along side a bunch of other mics blind.
As I said earlier, every guy who spent $5000 on a mic will always tell you he can hear a difference.
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Dumb fuck.
 
sdelsolray said:
Dumb fuck.
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I take it you're one of those guys huh???
Don't worry, you can always sell your precious German mic to another mug who's willing to pay the ridiculous current price for it, and get a whole bunch of other cheaper mics that are just as good.
Anyway, no need to be rude!
 
smuffjules said:
I take it you're one of those guys huh???
Don't worry, you can always sell your precious German mic to another mug who's willing to pay the ridiculous current price for it, and get a whole bunch of other cheaper mics that are just as good.
Anyway, no need to be rude!
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Maybe you're not a dumb fuck at all. Perhaps you can help me. Here are the German mics I have. If I could sell them and "get a whole bunch of other cheaper mics that are just as good", I'd be greatful. Maybe I'd have some money left over. This is exciting.

1) 2x Schoeps CMC6/MK4;
2) 2x Microtech Gefell M294
3) 1x Microtech Gefell UMT800

I just record solo fingerstyle acoustic and classical guitar. When you chose the replacements mics "that are just as good" please keep this in mind. I would love to "get a whole bunch of other cheaper mics that are just as good" that (i) have the musicality of the Schoeps, (ii) have the detail and accuracy the 0.8 micron nickel diaphragms of the M294s and (iii) have that authentic M7 capsule sound like the UMT800. For preamps, I usually use two channels of Pendulum Audo MDP-1a, 2 channels of John Hardy M-2 and/or two channels of Pendulum Audio SPS-1, in case you're into matching pres and mics and applications. Personally, I think it's a bunch of voodoo, but I'm just a dumb fuck.

From your prior posts, I'm confident you can provide me with your list of small diaphragm condensers and a large diaphragm or two that will make me happy.

BTW, do you know any "mug who's willing to pay the ridiculous current price" for my mics?
 
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Heh, well... I would've offered to, but I once heard some guy on a message board say that I can get better mics cheaper, so I'd better not. Sorry.
 
Microphone Application (I thought I wrote this last night!?!)

jmorris said:
I have a Neumann U87, a 1969. I bought it from Hit Factory as they were closing.... I have a lot of mics that sound as good or better than this Neumann. Better, being very subjective. I think it’s more application than " oh, this is a "better" mic".
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This is a good point.
I re-reviewed the frequency patterns of the U87 and the SE2200-A. The U87 does provide a substantial hi-end end boost where the SE2200-A remains rather flat which explains the U87's open-ness on that end.
I think my SE2200A is a great mic but we A/B'd it with the U87 with 2 male singers (strong handsome and masculine men, by the way! :D ).
My opinion of the A/B may have been different had we heard a female singer.
The U87 could have been perfect or it could have provided too much brilliance.
It is also possible that the Audio-Technica Pro 37R may have sounded harsh on a thinner sounding acoustic guitar and the SE3 may have been perfect in that case as the single mic.
I guess thats why I have "heard" so many folks say that it's good to have a decent sized collection of mics (you know, "the broad pallette to paint with" euphemism :rolleyes: )
BG/HSG
 
sdelsolray said:
Maybe you're not a dumb fuck at all. Perhaps you can help me. Here are the German mics I have. If I could sell them and "get a whole bunch of other cheaper mics that are just as good", I'd be greatful. Maybe I'd have some money left over. This is exciting.

1) 2x Schoeps CMC6/MK4;
2) 2x Microtech Gefell M294
3) 1x Microtech Gefell UMT800

I just record solo fingerstyle acoustic and classical guitar. When you chose the replacements mics "that are just as good" please keep this in mind. I would love to "get a whole bunch of other cheaper mics that are just as good" that (i) have the musicality of the Schoeps, (ii) have the detail and accuracy the 0.8 micron nickel diaphragms of the M294s and (iii) have that authentic M7 capsule sound like the UMT800. For preamps, I usually use two channels of Pendulum Audo MDP-1a, 2 channels of John Hardy M-2 and/or two channels of Pendulum Audio SPS-1, in case you're into matching pres and mics and applications. Personally, I think it's a bunch of voodoo, but I'm just a dumb fuck.

From your prior posts, I'm confident you can provide me with your list of small diaphragm condensers and a large diaphragm or two that will make me happy.

BTW, do you know any "mug who's willing to pay the ridiculous current price" for my mics?
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Hey, I'm sure you're no dumb fuck!
So, if you have a bunch of good buddies who are engineers, see if you know anyone who has maybe a pair of Rode NT 5's, maybe the MXL small diaphragm mics (991's maybe), Definitely check out the Nady TCM 1050 or 1150(U 47 knock offs), I personaly have the 1050, check out the Rode NT 2 or NTK, the Shure KSM 32. Try the Audio Technica 873R.
Check out all the knock off mics that you know about if you can, and if you can borrow them, then run them through the same pre's and record a whole bunch one after the other. Run them through different pre's if you want. Experiment all you want, although you could be there a while with all the different configurations you can have.
If you can, get a friend to edit them into a particular order onto a CD that only he knows, then you can blind test yourself and see which one you really like without having a bias.
Try it out, and if you still come up saying you like the German mics a whole bunch more, then so be it. You're winner because you've already got them.
If you end up liking the other mics the same or better, then I'd give ebay a try for your German mics and set the reserve to as close to as much as you paid for the mics in the first place.
One plus about having the German mics is that they don't lose their value, so you never lose out there.
Check it all out and I think you'll be surprised at the result.
Hey, I'm just trying to help out here. This is a Home recording forum after all, and most people here are buying these mics with their own hard earned cash.
If you run a commercial studio however, then it's easy to draw in the punters buy flashing names around like SSL, Otari, Neumann, etc.
If someone else is paying for it, then spend all you want.
Am I making sense???
 
smuffjules said:
Hey, I'm sure you're no dumb fuck!
So, if you have a bunch of good buddies who are engineers, see if you know anyone who has maybe a pair of Rode NT 5's, maybe the MXL small diaphragm mics (991's maybe), Definitely check out the Nady TCM 1050 or 1150(U 47 knock offs), I personaly have the 1050, check out the Rode NT 2 or NTK, the Shure KSM 32. Try the Audio Technica 873R.
Check out all the knock off mics that you know about if you can, and if you can borrow them, then run them through the same pre's and record a whole bunch one after the other. Run them through different pre's if you want. Experiment all you want, although you could be there a while with all the different configurations you can have.
If you can, get a friend to edit them into a particular order onto a CD that only he knows, then you can blind test yourself and see which one you really like without having a bias.
Try it out, and if you still come up saying you like the German mics a whole bunch more, then so be it. You're winner because you've already got them.
(snip)
Am I making sense???
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Yes, you're making sense. I've already done enough comparisons/tests with many mics, including some of those you listed. I ended up with the ones I listed above (along with a few others that are not German). I guess I'll just stay with what I have and not worry anymore about which mics to get. Maybe just do music instead.
 
sdelsolray said:
Yes, you're making sense. I've already done enough comparisons/tests with many mics, including some of those you listed. I ended up with the ones I listed above (along with a few others that are not German). I guess I'll just stay with what I have and not worry anymore about which mics to get. Maybe just do music instead.
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Yeah. I mean, if I had unlimited funds, I'd buy all the German mics too, just to have them. The irony is, most pro musicians I know are living on a very tight budget, and it takes every penny they make just to make ends meet.
Most of the guys I know who live in a decent house and can afford a bunch quality instruments don't make their living playing music. Most of the musicians I know that do have expensive gear live pretty frugal lifestyles to afford this. I guess music always feeds the soul, but not necessarily always your stomach.
 
In the end, you should always go with what sounds the best. Today you may not hear much of a difference between a $300 and a $3000 mic. In that event, I would certainly go with the $300 mic. However, after you get get a bunch more experience and practice, those differences may become more and more noticable to you. If that is the case, maybe saving up for the $3000 mic isn't such a bad thing.

If however you are just recording a little test segment and then doing comparisons, you may as well forget about it all and just buy on recommendation. Things change a whole lot when you start dropping them into a real mix. I never test mics or preamps based on individual tracks. The only way I can know if it is right for me is by actually using it. I personally don't care about being scientific, level matching etc... Music and sound aren't scientific in the real world. So why should my tests be?
 
What about "The Listening Sessions?"

xstatic said:
In the end, you should always go with what sounds the best. Today you may not hear much of a difference between a $300 and a $3000 mic. In that event, I would certainly go with the $300 mic. However, after you get get a bunch more experience and practice, those differences may become more and more noticable to you. If that is the case, maybe saving up for the $3000 mic isn't such a bad thing.

If however you are just recording a little test segment and then doing comparisons, you may as well forget about it all and just buy on recommendation. Things change a whole lot when you start dropping them into a real mix. I never test mics or preamps based on individual tracks. The only way I can know if it is right for me is by actually using it. I personally don't care about being scientific, level matching etc... Music and sound aren't scientific in the real world. So why should my tests be?
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I can clearly see and hear where you are coming from but I dont agree whole heartedly.

"The Listening Sessions" are just little recorded test segments of mics and pres and etc and they (the sessions) appear to be held in some high regard.

To be honest, I wish I had the time and money to listen to a good number of high end mics and then do the same with some well regarded low-mid priced mics just to see what low-mid priced mics had similar characteristics to some of the high end mics. Let's see, I'll need $100 K for salary and another $100 K to buy microphones... :rolleyes:

My SE2200A is certainly not a U87 but it sounds very close characteristically which is good for a $300 mic. I have done the college ear training courses and have a pretty darn good ear (good trombonists need to have that characteristic or they starve ;) ) and I needed to really focus in in the differences.

Tony, however, who does recording daily for a living was quick to point out some differences but also acknowledeged the similarities. (He was actually more impressed with the SE3 which would make sense as it is also a $300 mic but with a smaller diaphragm and made up of less materials so it should be a mic of higher quality.)
BG/HSG
 
Man, I am surprised that this thing showed up 6 years later.
As far as the Dumb Fire Truck Reference, there are those here who like to add a little color while making their opinions.......
 
homestudioguy said:
Man, I am surprised that this thing showed up 6 years later.
As far as the Dumb Fire Truck Reference, there are those here who like to add a little color while making their opinions.......
Click to expand...

They sure do like to express their feelings with their large range of vocabularies.
 
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