Nuemann TLM 103 vs. Shure KSM 44 vs. AKG C414

Bisson820

New member
I first was planning on buying the Shure sm7b, untill i decided to bump up my budget.

my next decision was the TLM 103 because i had used that in the studio i recorded at a couple years ago and loved how the vocals came out however im not sure what vocals were used by the TLM 103 and what ones were done by the U87 (engineer had both).

After hearing some mixed reviews of the TLM 103 i looked into equivalents.

I heard the Shure KSM 44 was a quality mic and beat out the TLM 103 on a number of occasions. compared reviews and opinions.

the least i know about is the AKG c414 but i've heard good things.


if anyone could enlighten me on these, i havent worked with any of them on an educated level.. (i had no idea about microphones when i recorded inthe studio).

Thanks

Edit - the source will be powerful male vocals. some harsh vocals... but mostly just clean and powerful.
 
Last edited:
that KSM44 was an answer to the u87...and shure made a mic that took some of the things that make the u87 great and made thier improvements in that mic...the KSM44 is a very good mic.
 
I've seen (heard) people achieve excellent results with TLM103 . . . I don't own one and probably would not pursue one specifically (if it came as part of a package with something I actually wanted I would certainly find a way to use it)

I'm a huge fan of all sorts of variations on the K47 capsule . . . I'm an unabashed unapologetic fan of U47 fets . . . near field, room, acoustic stringed instruments, vocals, percussion . . . if there were such a thing as a desert island mic (and for me I don't think there is) some specific U47 would come as close as possible . . . and it would not necessarily have to have the Neumann stamp . . . I've had remarkable performance from mod'd and boutique mics and had hands on some Neumanns that were dogs (the stray kind too physically psychologically damaged to ever bond effectively)

One of the studio workhorse mics (here) is the KSM32 sort of the cardioid only variant of the multi polar KSM44. I don't have a lot of experience with KSM44 (mostly because I have multi polar options with which I'm more familiar and am old school enough to prefer (very generally speaking) single capsule options) But there are powerful reasons why the KSM32 has lingered on the fringes of almost every session in which I've been involved with during past year. Audition mics, decide on first choice and then something doesn't feel right . . . for vocals I almost always have both a ribbon and the KSM32 ready for instant deployment. Right now am listening to a series of mixes where male lead vocals were done with a K47 capsule (not Neumann branded) except for one for which we used the KSM32. I can hear the difference between the two mics . . . even after some EQ (this vocalist has a broad 'sibilance' band even without an 's' in sight) the vocals seem more 'strident' . . . but that is not necessarily a 'bad' thing on this content . . . additional that particular session was infused with more caffeine and vocalist was appreciably fatigued, combination of budget constraints and performance value support retaining the vocal and still think 32 was appropriate choice that day

personally, sidestepping psychological effect of branding, in a choice between TLM103 and KSM44 I'd lean in direction of the Shure

I would try to avoid buying either without appropriate audition

That said, with the caveat that I have 0 experience with any current manufactured . . . think the most current age I can confirm is 13 yr. old . . . first used 13 yr.. ago so manufactured a year or two prior to that . . ., of the three you least my slight nod would be for C414

Twenty plus years ago during the search for my first upscale mic for acoustic guitar, when my expectation was that the C451 K84 would duke it out . . . I ended up with C414 (single capsule with both omni and cardioid) which probably makes it not a 414 and an odd duck . . . but based on that mic I picked up a couple of more 414's with dual capsule multi pattern capability (and been very pleased with their figure of 8 response). If I am unfamiliar with vocalist one of these is typically (in cardioid) the mic I reach for first to audition (the day, the room, the material) . . . my guess is that it is the final selection slightly less then half the time (with slightly higher selection on female then male vocalists . . . which always surprises me as first choice (though not usually my audition mic for vocalists with whom I'm unfamiliar) tends to be U87 (or boutique variant)

I have K47 based mics that when I go homeless pushing a cart full of paperbacks from underpass to underpass I'll still have tucked away at the bottom of the cart but if, in studio operation I were (hypothetically) forced to pare the cabinet to one mic of each general typed I'd be harder pressed to chose between a K47 (branded or un branded) and a branded C414 . . . (and I worked for years with a collaborator who genuinely seemed to hate the C414)

depending on your budget I'd at least try to audition some variation on the U47(fet) . . . head to head with C414 (if possible) but depending on budget I wouldn't exclude the KSM44 . . . at it's price point it might be an appropriate budgetary choice that lets you get to upscale SDC quicker then

and the last caveat is the better the mic the more important the room . . . you can use great mics in crappy rooms and they will reflect room instrument interactions accurately . . . it is possible that 500-600 on a boutique mic is a better strategy if that permits improvements in ambient environment rather then double the money on a branded (Neumann, AKG) mic (& when I started this (project studio mania) the 'adequate' price point was roughly $2k (in 1975 $'s, the first of the first adventures was a 'shell' inside a larger space that kept out the rain and snow . . . the 'room' cost (even with two of us providing the labor) $10k, the recorder + board (used, not 'vintage') cost $10k and the very limited mic cabinet (two SDCs, one LDC, one ribbon, a handful of dynamics (the 414 was personal and came later) cost $10k and at the time it would have been difficult to achieve what we considered to be adequate results for less . . . partner was (and remains) very proud of the fact that he has never had a day job . . . so enterprise crashed and burned not on lack of clients or quality of results but between gigging and 'real' job to supply operational revenue (2 in tape ran $130/reel with two to three (including safeties) tunes per reel . . . funds we tended to have to front (even when we were able to establish accounts we still tended to have to cover vendors before we were full compensated)) . . . it turned out if you don't sleep you get testy after a while . . . LLP's had yet to arrive in common parlance, incorporating had not proven to be a functional option at the start and the partnership was dissolved for something like $.30 on the dollar (not counting materials and labor for the room for which we got 0)

life lessons . . . it was (more or less) immediately after that that I discovered the C414 for personal recording (initially into a 'portable' Sony two track reel to reel . . . sound on sound, sound with sound and truly horrific NR implementation . . . the only truly 'demo' quality recording solution ('ain't no stinking 'demo' button on my console!') I've ever pursued (strongest feature of recorder was parrot shit from a 40 yr.. old parrot who used to terrorize a former street/alley cat chasing it while making big cat (panther/jaguar) rumblings) . . . actually recorded, perhaps, 90% of my 'i'll be rich and famous someday' (while my significant other . . . mom to cat and parrot . . . held down two jobs and I played poker (poorly) twice a week . . . shot nine ball once a month if we were coming up short on rent and for that first studio enterprise I was the 'responsible' one) 'demos' . . . I still have the original C414 or whatever the hell it was . . . survived a multitude of not smoke free studios and still sees service on a regular basis . . . on the mixes I'm reviewing . . . the current one . . . the female high harmony was done with that original C414 . . . maybe because that signer didn't smoke and featured female back up did . . . who knows

used U47 on congas during same song . . . (conga emphasis leading into elec gtr solo just came up)

So? either KSM44 or C414 can be lifetime mics (less sanguine concerning TLM103)
 
that KSM44 was an answer to the u87...and shure made a mic that took some of the things that make the u87 great and made thier improvements in that mic...the KSM44 is a very good mic.

with no disagreement with either contention in my expeirence , as an 'only' mic the U87 (class) is somewhat less flexible then one might wish (with all usual disclaimers in force, for any individual U87 might be perfect and for any specific budget KSM44 might be perfect)
 
I Used to have the KSM44 (Darrin Bought Mine) And the TLM103 And i Have to say that The KSM44 Sounds Way Better Than the 103 and for Cheap.I haven't hear The 414 But i would also recommend the AT4047 or 4050 Those are Great Mics.


I would buy the KSM44 Again in the Future but Right Now I am Checking out for the 4047 and a Pair of SM57'S. ;)
 
I Used to have the KSM44 (Darrin Bought Mine) And the TLM103 And i Have to say that The KSM44 Sounds Way Better Than the 103 and for Cheap.I haven't hear The 414 But i would also recommend the AT4047 or 4050 Those are Great Mics.


I would buy the KSM44 Again in the Future but Right Now I am Checking out for the 4047 and a Pair of SM57'S. ;)

The KSM44 is the top of the line of Shure's condencer mics...the TLM103 is at the bottom of another companies line...both know how to build a mic...you might as well have the good one...right.

The AT4047 is a super mic to put up even if the vocalist isnt the best you have ever heard...its designed to mimic a u47-fet...you cannot touch a u47 for under $4000 and this is the one mic that seems to work great for men too.
 
Heres some reviews from some guys in the industry.

We have an old U47fet and really I haven’t heard anything that's as good on bass guitars. I just use it every time as it just seems to have it all for the bass. I probably don’t use the mic as much as I should but I will occasionally use it for vocals, though I think that it lacks a bit of mid range clarity compared to the U87s. However it does have a lovely top end and of course the bottom is really round and full so I guess it works well on particular singers. I have tried the Neumann U47 on most things over the years but I haven't really tried it on drums just because of the shear physical size of it sometimes its hard to get something that big into a drum kit. I've always been a bit scared of putting it in front of kick drum because it is getting on a bit now but I know that some people think its the killer kick drum mic and companies like Soundlux are bringing out mics designed to emulate the U47. Another is the Audio Technica 4047SV, a mic that I have just got to know and really like. One thing I've done a lot is use it on acoustic guitars about 3 or 4 foot away with something like a KM84 closer in for the detail and I think it works because it doesn't push the midrange around 500 Hz which I just hate. All in all a classic.


Audio Technica 4047/SV
The Audio Technica 4047/sv design is based on the early Fet mics, namely the U47 fet from which it gets its name and the amplifier is transformer coupled with a specially tuned element intended to emulate the fantastic bottom end of the classic German mic. It's not quite as detailed in the highs as the other Audio Technica studio mic, the 4050, but the top end has a very distinctive mellow/ velvety character that really gives it a special feel. The mic has a dual diaphragm, cardioid polar pattern and a maximum input sound level of 149 dB SPL which means it can handle some serious volume. It's typical self-noise is only 9 dB SPL (A-weighted) so at maximum SPL it has a dynamic range of 140 dB.The mic is finished in matt silver unlike the usual AT studio range of black mics and at the bottom of the body a pair of switches engage a 10 dB pad and a 12 dB/octave, 80 Hz low-cut filter.

Recording

When I worked in the studio full time I discovered that I could get a great kick drum sound by using a large diaphragm dynamic such as a D12 or Sennheiser 421 inside the drum near the beater but the secret weapon was to use the Neumann U47 fet a few inches outside the front skin. The bottom end on the Neumann was like nothing else I could get from the other mics in the studio, so when I heard that Audio Technica had designed a mic to emulate the characteristics of the 47 fet I went out and bought one for the mobile. I had always liked the sound of the Audio Technica mics and they seem very good value for money. The Audio Technica 4047 is very attractive with its matt silver finish. It's a solidly built piece of kit and comes with a very nice shock mount. To emulate the Neumann, the amplifier is transformer coupled and has a specially tuned element to create that "oh my god" bottom end of the original and while it still doesn’t have all the character of the Neumann it's a great option for anyone who can't find/afford the original. It really is great on close headed kick drums about 8" off the front head and aimed dead centre it gives a really nice balance of highs and lows. Obviously most kick drums are pretty heavily EQ'd and compressed but the more you have to start with, the better the end result. So while the bottom end is pretty good the Audio Technica 4047 also has a really nice top end and while it's not quite as detailed in the highs as some other large diaphragm condensers it sounds great on most acoustic instruments and vocals. It's a very smooth classy top end and I always use it on female vocals but whatever you use it on won't disappoint. It's obviously good on bass instruments but I've used it on loud rock guitars with great success. All in all a really smooth performer that makes a pretty good job of anything you throw at it. Occasionally on a mobile I set up a mid and side pair closer to the choir than the Soundfield for some more detail and the AT 4047 is great as the mid mic with plenty of output and very quiet. It would be very interesting if AT made a multi pattern version.JR.

Having been a recording engineer for nearly thirty years it now takes quite a lot to get me enthusing about mics but occasionally one comes my way which is a delight to use. The AT4047 is just such a one. I have rarely used a mic which is so versatile, being capable of accurately reproducing many different sound sources well and the attenuator and Hi pass switch make this a fantastically flexible and capable studio mic.
I've used it on everything from guitars (acoustic and electric), vocals, bass guitar, percussion and even in a bass drum. It's quiet, efficient, robust and well built.
Even recording some Tibetan singing bowls at incredibly low volumes caused no noise problems. Granted the mic was going through a hi quality preamp but the singing bowls can highlight problems you never knew existed. But not with the 4047. It is frightened of nothing and with some accurate placement gives a smooth response across the frequency range and can handle high SPLs.
It's a great mic to reach for when your U87 is just a little too revealing on that female singer with a very peaky voice or that guitar combo which is just a tad too gritty for other condensers.
The 4047 has a wonderful way of smoothing and rounding signals with losing any of the attack or compromising the transients in a performance. A true all-rounder.
It's not often I say this but if you are looking for a mic to do most of your home recording with and have around £300 to spend then this is one of the strongest candidates. If you can afford a nice preamp and compressor to go with it then you will have a set up which will stand you in excellent stead for a long, long time.
The 4047 is the only Audio Technica mic I have direct experience of but hopefully we may get chance to use some others in the range soon. JS
 
so i have limited recording experience in the way of live recording of instruments and such, but i will throw my 2 cents in.

I started out with a guitar hero mic. then i was focused on making beats and maybe throwing vocals thru audacity to test them sort of speak. that led to the pro tools bundle (and mic) then fast forward a little bit i saved up money to buy a mic. I was highly recommended the AKG 414 from a local studio. I didnt listen and bought the 103. Brought it home, did one track and hated it compared to my pro tools mic for my specific recording. my lack of experience, or whatever the case may be, led me to take it back the next day and get the 414 like i was referred. I love this mic. again i have limited experience, but i have worked with a large number of people in the short time i have been working at scratch line records. The mic is very forgiving to environmental obstructions as well as vocals. Thats what i use it for, and thats why i use it.

In turn, with no long term experience with the other mics, i am very pleased with my 414.
 
...if you are recording in an untreated, or minimally treated room, you might want to go back and reconsider the SM7B...room treatment plays a big roll in the recording process, especially when using any quality LDC condenser mic...

...a quality dynamic like the SM7B will be much less susceptible to ambient room noise/reflections...besides, IMHO the SM7B, on many sources, will sound as good as most of the LDC mics already mentioned (when powered by a decent mic pre with 60+ dB of gain)...better than the TLM 103 for sure (IMHO)... ;)
 
I've used the TLM 103 and I thought it was a great, but extremely limited mic. The switches on the U87 really matter! I wouldn't buy one unless I already had many Neumanns.

I have never tried a KSM44. I do like Shure mics though, and have heard many good things about it. I've never heard a Shure mic I didn't like in some way.

I've used a AKG 414 and it didn't do it for me. None of the AKG mics I've tried have.

I'm kinda a Neumann fanatic, love my U87 and my friend's U67. My favorite is a U48. Every great company has a certain sound and Neumann has the sound that I want in a mic.
 
Back
Top