Nuemann TLM 103 versus the UA 87

[Sterling30]

How much of a difference in quality is there between these two mics? The TLM 103 gets trashed on gearslytz.com by just about everybody but user reviews on Musician's Friend, Music 123, ect are over the top with praise as a vocalist mic as well as an acoustic and amp..

I am looking for a significant improvement for vocals and acoustic guitar. Is the 103 a good choice or would the extra cost of the UA 87 be worth it?

I will be using it with a True Systems P-solo, that could change to a DAV BG1 though.

 

[Big Kenny]

User reviews are usually a joke. They either rant or rave.
The two mics you ask about is like comparing a cavalier to a corvette. Both made by the same company, not using the same technology or materials.
I like the 193 better than the 103 but thats' me.

 

[Sterling30]

Actually the TLM 103 does share the same casing and diaphram as the UA 87 and many of the reviews I've read real feel it performs well agaist the 87.., just opinions I guess.

 

[xstatic]

In general, the people who praise the TLM103 have not used a mic that is any nicer. Basically, it may be by far the best mic they have ever used. People that tend to not like the TLM103 much have used many nicer mics and often have several Neumann's in their lockers already. I feel like the TLM 103 just never really had that "neumann" sound. Something was always missing. I like it for a $700 mic, but maybe not for a $1000 mic. It does have a kind of cool dark feel to it though. It also is one of the few mics that really sounds good with an Avalon 737.

I own a vintage U87 and I can tell you this... I would not trade my U87 for 2 TLM103's. 4 ? maybe... 6 ? I certainly would take the trade because I could sell a few of em and get another cool U87

 

[BigRay]

They both share some of the same characteristics but are pretty different..for example, in the TLM 103's capsule there is no rear diaphragm.

In a few technical areas the 103 outperforms the u87 . At low frequencies the TLM 103 has greater rejection of sound arriving from the rear than the U 87 does in its cardioid setting (i.e. the TLM 103's directional pattern remains more like a cardioid). The TLM 103s freq response extends higher before the roll-off than the u87.

The TLM 103 has no multiple pattern settings, no pad, and no LF reduction parameters... The TLM 103 also has higher output levels , can handle higher sound levels without distorting,and has better SNR. The 103 also requires more juice.


Soundwise, the two are cousins.The k103(tlm103) and k87(u87) have a similar character.

If we are talking about the cardiod only mics from neumann, I much prefer the TLM193.

 

[Soundmind??]

I have both. It depends on your need. The 103 is cardioid only and doesn't have pad or rolloff control on the mic. I think they use the same capsule, but I'm not sure of that. The 103 seems to be a little brighter, but that may have been due to some eq. I haven't really A/Bd them so I can't say. If you need all the bells and whistles on the mic (variety of patterns, roll off, pad, the 103 isn't for you. If you want a low noise cardioid no frills mic that is so sensitive that you'll discover noises in your studio never heard before, the 103 is for you. If you're trying to get a good mic - pre combo, the 103 and the Avalon 737sp do work well together. You can tweak the knobs on the Avalon to get a "tube" mic sound with the 103, or any other decent non tube mic. In other words, you can go from crisp, clean to warm with a little tweaking.

 

[Sterling30]

Appreciate the feedback from everyone. I did just order the the Avalon 737sp, might as well go the distance on this. I can't find anyone who says anything bad about the 737 + I have 45 days to give it a good test run..

Thanks again everyone..

 

[xstatic]

Actually, I am not a big fan of the 737. But, with both the TLM103 and the U87's there is something magical about the 737's

 

[Sterling30]

I'm not buying a UA-87

I want this 103 to work well and I like the idea of a tube sound. I also have a True Sound P-Solo on the way here now so we'll see how they compare.

So many different combos and opinions out there, my main goal is to just beathe some real life into the studio I'm using now.

I do expect the new equipment to make a huge difference..

 

[sound125]

I want this 103 to work well and I like the idea of a tube sound.

The TLM 103 is not a tube mic. It's basically a mic that shares the same capsule and freq bump as the U87, though slightly extended and a little brighter. If you're looking for something not quite as dark and with a little more detail, then it might be for you.

 

[xstatic]

One important thing to remember is that other than the paper specs, that is about the only similarity between any sound relationship of a U87 and a TLM103.

 

[BigRay]

It is NOT the same capsule as the u87. The u87 has the k87 capsule, and the tlm 103 has the k103..the two mics are cousins, but the relation stops at some basic similarities in sound..

The TLM 103 is not a tube mic. It's basically a mic that shares the same capsule and freq bump as the U87, though slightly extended and a little brighter. If you're looking for something not quite as dark and with a little more detail, then it might be for you.

 

[Sterling30]

I realise the the 103 isn't a tube mic but the Avalon 737sp is, that's what I meant. I sorta rationalised that what differences there are between the tlm 103 and ua-87 could be made up with the 737sp. I could be completely wrong about that but I guess we'll see. Next studio sesson is July 1 and the the 103 and P-solo should drop in the next few days. The Avalon ships on the 20th so hopefully come July 1st we'll be able to compare the 2 preamps with the TLM 103. I'm really rooting for the P-solo to come through myself cause I'd rather not part with 2g for a preamp but if the 737 performs as well as users say it does I'll find a way.

 

[xstatic]

I would not say that the Avalon will even out any differences between the two mics. They will both sound like they do through an Avalon I would not be worried in this instance about which mic you went with. Even with the TLM 103, the combination of that specific mic and the specific Avalon (737) is pretty amazing. I personally (as well as many others) find that the two together really compliment each other and make each other sound much better than they really are. I think you will also find that the 103 sounds quite a bit different through the P-solo where other mics might sound a little more similar.

 

[jmorris]

in your price range have you thought of something along the lines of the Sure KSM series? Or Groove tubes GT? i HAVE A 1969 u87 that I like but the mentioned mic's are really good I think, many applications. Maybe the TLM103 isnt exactly the right choice for you?

 

[studiomaster]

UA87 is awesome!

 

[tkingen]

It is NOT the same capsule as the u87. The u87 has the k87 capsule, and the tlm 103 has the k103..the two mics are cousins, but the relation stops at some basic similarities in sound..

A lot of Neumann advertising says the K103 is "derived" from the U87 capsule. I'd be curious to know what that meant, other than it's not a U87. Also, it's been said that the newer Nuemann mics (along with other companies) use surface mount components. Any idea what that means to us home hobby guys?

 

[60's guy]

In general, the people who praise the TLM103 have not used a mic that is any nicer. Basically, it may be by far the best mic they have ever used.

Great point, xstatic!

Mic reviews are extremely subjective and suspect at best. I read 'em all, but I've discovered that the best advice is to ignore what gets said here or at any other forum concerning microphones.

The best advice is:

Choose a mic

Buy it

Try it

If it works for you......keep it.

If it doesn't work for you........sell it.....and don't whine about it.

For Christsakes..........get over it already!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WTF!

The majority of people here keep on writing about microphones only because they enjoy reading their own words with or without hands on experience of the mics they write about.

The only way to learn what may or may not work for you is to pony up the dollars and test it out.

If it works out...fine. If it doesn't work out....that's fine too. Sell it.

I get sick and tired of reading posts that ask.........

"I need a mic. What's the best mic I can buy for under $100 and make me sound like a real pro?"

I realize that many are on tight budgets and cannot spring for the bucks involved to buy anything better than an SM57.....yadayadayada.

Until you can.......make do with it and use your imagination when using that SM57. Experiment with positioning and every other variable.

Learn and make use of the tools you can now afford until you can afford what you perceive to be better tools.