Now an official SM57 hater

  • Thread starter Thread starter HangDawg
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chessparov said:
mshilarious, as Treeline pointed out, a nice pre like a DMP3 can make a '57 sound "good". When I tried the Joe Meek 3Q, thought it was superior to the DMP3 (smoother/more detailed mid-range), on a LDC. Didn't have a chance to evaluate it, however, on a dynamic mic. ("only" a singer here BTW)

Hey that's cool, Chess. Why don't you share some more detail about your testing methodology. Also, if you got any clips to share, that would rock.

Ya know, I was half expecting you to say something about the Electrovoice dynamics. :D Which are some of the best mics on the freakin' planet, by the way. I've been slowly replacing my SM-57's and 58's with Electrovoices ... RE-15's, 666, 664-A (on Scott Dorsey's recommendation).

I feel kinda' dumb for not switching out earlier. Damn things sound so much better, and some of them are from the 1950's and 60's.
 
chessparov said:
The point of these outboard suggestions would be to upgrade the entire chain-not just replace an existing mic IMHO.

I guess that gets to where it is the 57 really starts to shine. I'm not sure where my pres cut off on the dollar chain, since they start life at around $250/channel (roughly the RNP level), but then I mod them. But I'm assuming I haven't hit the Holy Grail pre level, because the 57 still sounds tubby on toms to me.

On the other hand, if you're a pro who has great pres laying around for those critical vocal tracks, and those pres make a 57 sound great on snare, then I guess you save money by using the 57.
 
No guys, a 57 will never sound good, not even with the best pre. It will sound decent, not good or even great.

It's the M201 that sounds good and with a very good pre it'll sound great.

It will sound great on snare, on kick, on toms, trumpet, bones, sax, guitar and even on overheads it will sound better than most cheap condensers.

I'm using the M201's for more than 20 year now and I still love it. I do have a 57, it's in the closet permanently.

Ya know what's very wrong with the 57? It's off axis response.

The whole 57 hype was apparently something like the NS10 hype, but we know better now don't we?

You may flame me now.:D
 
No flames here ... because I suspect you're absolutely correct. :)
 
Well, here are my thoughts on the whole SM57 mystique thing. I believe that, once something gets to be established as a standard way of operating, it tends to develop a certain amount of inertia. People tend to just keep on doing it that same way. They say, "Well, so-and-so (who is a big personal hero) did it this way back in 1976 and it sounded good, so it ought to be good enough for me." But people don't stop to consider if that is truly still the best way to approach a certain problem. They don't take into consideration if there have been technological developments that would make that other approach obsolete, or even the possibility that their hero, who used that mic on that same application in 1976, probably would have made a different choice if he (or she) had the other options that are available today.

Take live performances, for example. Think about the tremendous amount of progress that has been made in sound systems over the last few decades. When I was starting out doing sound with live bands, it was the mid-to-late 1970's. In those days, PA systems didn't have much high end, simply because the high frequency drivers couldn't put out much sound. It didn't matter if you mic'd up a live band with all SM57s (which tops out at, what, 14kHz?), because the PA systems couldn't reproduce any useful frequencies above that, anyway. So, you just saved yourself some money and used good old cheap, rugged Shure mics, and used GOOD mics when you got to the studio. Today, you've got speaker cabinets that will play loudly and accurately out to 20 kHz or better. Most local bands are using Mackie boards. I personally think the VLZ's sound pretty brittle and unattractive in the high frequencies, but you certainly can't deny that the high frequencies are there! The PA equipment that we have today is absolutely light years beyond anything that was available in the 70's, which is precisely when the 57's became so popular. But people don't realize that these mics became so popular in the 70s BECAUSE THEY WERE A PERFECT MATCH FOR THE CRAPPY SOUND SYSTEMS THAT WERE AVAILABLE AT THE TIME! Today, I'll go in and see a band that has a PA system that will produce useful sound right out to the limits of human hearing, and everything on stage will be mic'd up with SM57's and 58's. I just look at that and think, "Man, that is just WRONG! Why don't they just throw an old blanket over the speakers while they're at it?" So, I think the reason that so many people are still so crazy about these mics is that they are just following the same old axioms that have been repeated over and over for so long that they have now become accepted as gospel truth, without considering all the changes that have happened in the meantime - changes that now render those axioms obsolete.

Of course, in music, everything is subjective. If it sounds good, it IS good. If something works for you, then that might be the right approach for you. So, if you want to mic up everything with an SM57 and process the hell out of it until it sounds decent, then knock yourself out. But, when I was first learning how to run sound equipment, I was taught that, if you have to mess around with the eq or compression or whatever to get a mic to sound good on a signal, then it was time to try a different mic! In my personal opinion, we have mics available today that will dramatically outperform the venerable SM57's and 58's on just about any application that you can name. (The Beyer 201 for snare - which is what I use - is an excellent example of this, as is the Sennheiser e609 for guitar amps.) I don't think I've even plugged in one of my old SM57's for twenty years or so, unless I had already used all my other (better) mics, and didn't have anything else to use!

Brad
 
I totally agree with you, Brad. I think your point about live sound is the one I'm making when trying to use my Sennheisers and Audio Technicas instead of some dented-top 58 on an otherwise reasonably good guitar amp or vocalist!
 
Brad, you da man! I've been to a concert with Sarah Brightman where the sound was better than any CD, absolutely gorgeous.

Not a single 57 or 58 on stage, Schoeps and mics like that.

The best sound I've ever heard during a live performance.
 
Thanks, guys.

Of course, having said all that, I should also admit that I have no intention of throwing away my old 57s. One of these days, I'm sure I'll be recording something and will find that an SM57 is the PERFECT MIC to get the sound that I'm looking for. So, I guess that, technically, that doesn't qualify me an "SM57 hater." I just think that they're often used (in a knee jerk fashion) when much better choices are available.

Brad
 
I agree. I'm not in any hurry to get rid of my 57's, and I should mention that I have seven of them. In fact, the bass player and guitarist in my new band use them for vocals during rehearsal. But I do have a wider variety of mics to choose from now, and the 57 is no longer the go-to mic. It's funny that Brad mentions the e609 because that one is now my go-to mic for guitar cabinets. I even use the e609 on bass cabs with good results, but every time I post this opinion I get NO REACTION! If you have one, try it.
 
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