Note bending on an Acoustic

  • Thread starter Thread starter pchorman
  • Start date Start date
pchorman

pchorman

New member
Question on string behavior: I have a Takemine 360SC electric-acoustic that plays and sounds excellent, but I can't bend notes on it for anything (I use 0.10 D'Addario's).

Now I know what you're thinking (...punk! did I fire 6 shots or only five? just kidding): the scale length from nut to bridge is too long and requires extra tension at concert pitch, which makes the strings difficult to bend. This is only partially true. My Les Paul is about a half-inch shorter. (not sure if that's a considerable difference.) Strangely, I can bend the strings quite far without stressing my fingers but the notes don't seem to pull sharp, nothing like an electric.

Are the strings partly to blame? Just out of curiousity, what disqualifies electric guitar strings from being used on acoustics? Any other factors?

Thanks
 
There is no difference in acoustic and electric plain strings, just nickel plated steel. Scale length and fret height are two factors in the feel of tension. Low fret height can really make a guitar feel stiff. Also the string angle at the peghead and the bridge. Aoustics really chop the string off at the bridge. Also when you bend a b string, you will notice that you are also bending the g string. If that g string is a wound string, then you can see how it would add to the tension of the b string. These are some of the things i've picked up on over the last 25 years of repairing and building guitars.

Stan Williams
 
I could be wrong...

It seems to me that it has something to do with sustain. An acoustic dosen't sustain like an electric, so you have to "dig" into it more. I can bend notes on my acoustic fine, but getting the bent notes to have a sound is another story...

-jhe
 
Well, the g string being wound is a definite factor that inhibits my ability to bend it, but all of the strings (especially the lowest 4), don't pull sharp given the same amount of flexing.

There is a little more tension on the acoustic due to it's longer scale length - no argument - but I can easily overcome this added tension with a little more pressure on the bends. They just don't respond like any electrics I've played.

Thanks for the feedback.
 
Not to put too fine a point on it, but the Takamine doesn't respond like an electric because it isn't an electric. Sounds simple but isn't.

An acoustic guitar (even the Ovation Viper - great plugged in, not much without power) is set up entirely different from an electric. To get volume (and more importantly, tone) out of an acoustic instrument, you will need fairly substantial strings strung at tensions that would bend a Telecaster. I run mediums on my acoustic and when I bend a string, it's painful. So my playing style reflects that. Light gauges feel great. But on my guitar, they sound like water in the beer tastes.

They're different instruments, that's all.
 
It may be 'duh!' but are you fretting behind the note you're trying to bend with your other fingers.

For example, if you are trying to bend the 'g' note on the 8th fret of the 'B' string with your little finger, are you also pushing the string up with your index, middle and ring fingers on the 5th, 6th, and 7th frets?

If you're not, try it, it will help.

foo
 
Hmm - pc you said - "I can't bend notes on it for anything (I use 0.10 D'Addario's). " I read this as saying "I can´t get the bent note to sustain" . Correct me if I am wrong. I did a little checking at Takamine´s Web site and the 360 does have a 25-3/8 in. scale length. You are using 9´s on your Paul if I remember correctly and it is 24-3/4 in. scale length. This all adds up to a BIG difference in tension at concert tuning, or whatever tuning you use for that matter. Even more than that, I have found that acoustic guitars just do not perform with anything less than 11´s. Gotta have that mass to get some sustain and yes - NO PAIN NO GAIN. Generally, I use 11´s when I am performing in an acoustic duo that I am in and my partner uses 13´s. They (13´s) sound UNGODLY but I can not play on them for more than 30 min. and I can not bend any notes to proper pitch easily with those strings. We somtimes switch guitars and he invariably laughs at mine and I DIE trying to play his. But talk about sustain and power !!! I guess what I am saying is that you have to use bigger strings on an acoustic to get anything out of it and I usually notice that I hit the strings VERY hard when I am playing lead lines and single note stuff as well as bending. A thicker than normal (acous) pick seems to help here as well and it gives me the ability to get a little more energy put into the string. The other thing that is possible is to allow the sound from the monitors and the house sound to make your acous/elec sustain more when you play live.
 
Thanks. Have never tried fatter strings than 10's on the acoustic, having a hard enough time flexing these and not wanting to add much more tension to this light and seemingly weak body of the Tak.

Just to clarify to foo, I often kick in the strength of other fingers to bend, but the particular phenomenon I notice is that, given the same flex (amount of bending), the notes don't pull sharp like an electric. So when I say it doesn't "respond" the same I'm particularly questioning the audible response or pitch. If I bend a string way out, even farther than on an LP, for example, I cannot achieve the same max frequency.

Perhaps this all comes down to the "significantly" larger scale length as HR says which screws up the whole relationship between what my ears expect to hear and what my fingers are accustomed to on an electric's fretboard.

One of these days I'll try fatter strings for the sound improvement, but I know this will only worsen the problem I'd like to mitigate with note bending.
 
Also keep in mind, that with an electric, you have electromagnetics and amplified overtones on you side to help the sound of the bending notes reach your ear. You will not be able to achieve exactly yhe same thing on your acuostic simply because of physics. Some things you can do to help is to attack the note harder just before the bend or try to find that note someplace else on the fret board where it may be easier to bend strings. You may also try sliding the note on the fret board instead of bending the string. Something you can do just to try out and say you did it is to use nylon or gut strings for G,B,E if you can find them with a ball end. Howerver this greatly changes the tone of your guitar but they are much easier to bend. And then there is always the torture of finger stregnth and dexterity exersises LOL........
 
All of the feedback you have gotten is knowledgable and potentially helpful. One thing I would emphasize is that the acoustic guitar is a different instrument, and that you should approach leads on an acoustic guitar differently than you would on an electric guitar. One thing that you rely on a bit less is bending the strings. How can you convey what you want to convey other than by bending? The medium is the message.
 
Second nature

I have played only acoustic guitars all my life.
When I pick up an electric, I feel like I'm
holding something very very different. I find
that I over bend the strings on the electric,
because I'm used to the acoustic tension. The
acoustic always requires more push, tug and pull
to get a good bent note effect. When you play
acoustic all the time, it seems like second nature
to bend strings. Your finger strength eventually
deals with it simply. I'm sure when an electric
guitarist picks up the acoustic, he feels a
different animal too. I do solo concerts in
Contemporary Christian settings where the audience
is very focused on you. After the concerts I
often get comments like; "you really bend your
strings alot", or "I thought you were going to
break your strings". Oddly enough, I'm not even
aware of my bending anymore, it just happens.
I'm often surprised by the comments. So I believe
it has to do with spending time on the instrument
of choice, and therefore building the correct
finger strength and response for that paticular
instrument. Eventually it will become second
nature. - If you change instruments alot, you
will just have to spend time on each of them.
I prefer bonding to one instrument for ease,
comfort, agility, and performance.

Chuck
 
Bending technique is another issue. If you bend with only one finger you'll probably have a problem. Esp on acoustic I'll bend with three fingers scrunched up together. Also make sure you have your thumb locked over the neck so you can use the strength in your hand and wrist, not just fingers. I find I can bend a full step on the first string, half a step on the second and a little wobble on the rest (esp. the round strings which tend to roll under your fingers).
 
Yeah. One thing you DON'T want to have happen is for the string to get stuck between the fleshy part of your finger and the nail. That usually happens with a snap and it hurts.
 
And another thing you don't want to have happen is when you stretch the string so hard that it snaps and the broken end whips into your face creating a huge gash in your cheek with your blood dripping all over the fingerboard. I hate it when that happens.
 
Finger Nails

I've never caught a string between my
finger nail and flesh, but it does sound
painful. I keep my finger nails trimmed
so close that it won't ever happen. Another
reason I keep them trimmed back is to
prevent fingerboard wear. Have you ever
Finger nail grroves ? Little grooves develope
between the strings. I pointed this out to
some players along the way; they were
shocked. They thought it was common wear.

Thoughts for pondering
Chuck
 
string diameter is only half the story...

its the neck fingerboard radius that is so different.Are the frets buzzing when you bend above the 10th fret?If so,tape the board with masking tape and dress the frets with steel wool to remove the tiny burrs.10s are standard on acoustics these days.It use to be 11s(I think Martins still are).Practice whole-step bends with TWO fingers (m&a)on the second string up to unison with the first finger (i)on the first string ala Hendrix.
Tom
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top