normalize, or not to normalize

[kylen]

texroadkill - oops I missed the fact that you have a masterlink - I guess you'd know how to set one up then ! Now I remember another post where you mentioned that.

Blue Bear Sound - yes, everything. especially you mention:

1) Many novices use it in a misguided attempt to raise overall level. They have forgotten, or are not aware of the fact that overall level is frequency-dependent to our ears, and so, you cannot effectively use a peak-based function such as normalizing to affect apparent loudness.

I would think attempting to 'master' a project (collection of mixes) using the normalization DSP in masterlink as a common normalizer would absolutely not work since it uses 'peak' normalization. Good point !

I'm trying to piece together what jmorris is trying to do. If they are working on a collection then the 'loudness' of each song in the collection would have to be adjusted individually using the masterlink DSP tools as shown in the masterlink manual.

Peak normalization is only useful on an individual song, not a collection (as far as adjusting for equal loudness goes). So I'd like to conclude that the normalizer in masterlink is simply to back up the limiter when the output is lowered to 'defeat' the effect of the upward limiter. texroadkill ?

bluebear - would you care to work on a postit for this forum or note for your own web page. The 3 tips you posted along with a little detail might save folks some bad audio. I know I've spent at least a year doing both #1 and #3 till I found out it really doesn't sound good ! Of course there's nothing wrong with experimenting and making bad audio to learn - it's just nice to have a place to turn to find out why.

kylen

 

[dobro]

Hi Bruce - this is the bit I'd like some clarification on:

"If you're using a limiter, there's absolutely no reason at all to use Normalization afterwards. Limiting is already raising your level (and doing a better job of it than normalizing ever could)."

My understanding is that limiting doesn't raise any levels at all - it just lops off the tops of the loudest peaks.

(The second part to my understanding is that after you've limited a track, you can then apply make up gain. Or you can normalize the track. Either way, the parts of the track that were quieter relative to the now non-existent peaks can be turned up. Which makes the track louder. No?)

 

[ryanlikestorock]

Most limiters "limit" the peaks, as well as adjust the gain of the track. Because that's all a Normalizer does is adjust the gain of the track, it's not necessary to use one if you use the limiter for this purpose.

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

Hi Bruce - this is the bit I'd like some clarification on:

"If you're using a limiter, there's absolutely no reason at all to use Normalization afterwards. Limiting is already raising your level (and doing a better job of it than normalizing ever could)."

My understanding is that limiting doesn't raise any levels at all - it just lops off the tops of the loudest peaks.

(The second part to my understanding is that after you've limited a track, you can then apply make up gain. Or you can normalize the track. Either way, the parts of the track that were quieter relative to the now non-existent peaks can be turned up. Which makes the track louder. No?)

I should have clarified -- I was specifically referring to the upward Limiter as in the Masterlink... but Limiting in general DOES raise your potential overall level since it reduces the peaks that can rob you of potential headroom to expand level. Whether the limiting process itself does it for you (as in upward limiiting which limits AND raises output level) or you limit then add gain depends on the application and DSP involved.


Kylen -- I do plan to add a Normalization article to my site -- but haven't had the chance yet! (been too busy!!!)

 

[kylen]

ryanlikestorock & dobro - you guys both mention 2 different types of limiters. I've got both kinds probably like most folks. The kind in Cool Edit Pro - the 'hard limiter' - doesn't have an output adjustment so sometimes folks follow that thing by some type of gain dsp - either normalization (if they're mastering) or a fader (if they're mixing).

Kylen -- I do plan to add a Normalization article to my site -- but haven't had the chance yet! (been too busy!!!)

Hey thanks - that would be cool Blue Bear - I see a lot of folks quoting your articles and compilations over here so that's a great spot. I used some good stuff from one of your EQ articles the other day - very handy !

Where's jmorris ? What did you do so far - Hehe I guess you've had some time to run some cool experiments by now !

kylen