Non Drummer needs help

V

Vease

New member
I am a guitar player/singer, and I use a Zoom PS02 for storing ideas and parts of songs. My problem is that I can't get to grips with the built in drum/bass patterns so that I can actually lay down a whole song.

It's a question of understanding 'measures'. I assume that these are the same as bars in written music, but even though everything I write is in 4/4, I keep missing where to put fills and rests,etc. I kind of count in my head and stop the playback, enter a 1/4,2/4 rest,etc .and then save the result. When I come to put the audio track on, the rest is either too long, too short or in the wrong place. Same thing with fills.

Maybe it's just a question of trial and error, and it doesn't help that you can't cut and paste like on a software system, but making backing tracks which do more than just plug along for the whole song is a real pain. Does anybody have any tips for entering fills and rests into backing tracks?
 
I'm going to take a stab here... I'm just going by what you said, I don't mean to question your understanding o written notation (mine is very basic really). I know that in any given bar rests+notes should all add up to the total (4 in 4/4). Maybe that's not your problem. I dunno. I figure it should work just fine if you have the correct number of notes+rests where needed. Might you be using a wrong character, like an 8th rest instead of 4th or 16th?
 
a measure of 4/4 is the same as a 'bar' of 4/4...note-wise, drum notation is essentially the same as notation for any other instrument (except that in drum notation one "note" always stands for one instrument, e.g. the snare is depicted throughout a piece of written drummusic as a 'C' note (not sure if it's really 'C' or not...but this illustrates my point). As with musical notation the sum of the notes & rests must equal whatever time that bar is in (you can't have 4 quarter notes and a quarter rest in a bar of 4/4!!!)

maybe you should try and jot down what you're trying to do...and then try and progarm it

I don't know anything about the capabilities of your Zoom unit - but I always found it easier to program drum machines 'real time' - if you screw up erase and try, try again till you get it right
 
Speaking from a super experienced (3 months) newbie (cough) drummer perspective may I suggest checking some drum sites out so you may gain a better understanding of the Percussive Arts :)

http://www.pas.org
This is a link to the percussive arts society and has some useful information on basic drum rudiments (sticking patterns).

http://www.drumbum.com/
This site has links to all kinds of drumming and percussion information.

I usually just try to imitate other music that I've heard as far as when to crash, fill, roll, etc...but a basic rock pattern is along the lines of 1 e & a 2 e & a 3 e & a 4 e & a (obviously 16ths) for 3 measures and the 4th measure is either a complete fill (at 16th's, 32nd's, 8th's or whatever) or a fill starting from 3 or 4 with a crash on the returning 1.

This is a very basic pattern but you can hear it a lot in AC/DC or lots of other bands.

The main difference is instead of playing a different chord the drummer is keeping 16th's on the hat, 1 & 3 on the bass, and 2 & 4 on the snare.

Check those sites as they will give specific examples along with note values, what hand to use, etc..

-B
 
Many times a rest (or for that matter a beat) does not fall on the down beat (1/4 note). In most cases - in particular with 4/4 rock or pop material 1/16 would be the smallest sub-division needed. So it is possible you need to start a fill or rest on an 1/8 or 1/16 of a previous measure.

I'm sure you understand how to count - but for the sake of discussion, drummers are taught to count as follows (or as Bedubs indicates use e rather than da)

1/4 Notes Count as:
One - two - three - four

1/8 Notes Count as:
One - and - two - and - three - and - four - and

1/16 Notes Count as:
One - da - and - da - two - da - and - da - three - da - and - da - four - da - and - da

So a fill or rest could start on the "da after four" - which is actually a 1/16 note rather than a 1/4 note. Natutally if you program a 1/4 note at that point, rather than a 1/16 note the pattern will end out of sync. I agree with Pratt, programming in step time is a major pain - and in no way musical. If you have buttons on your machine - learn to play in real time - if not consider some type of MIDI controller.
 
Another way to look at it is this: In 4/4 time a measure containes 4 beats. To break down a measure in 4/4 time let's start with the whole note. This note containes four beats. Next comes the half note which containes two beats. Next, the quarter note which has one beat. An eighth note containes a half beat. The sixteenth note containes one quarter beat. (Not to be confused with a quarter note). And last but not least, the thirty second note which breaks down to one eighth beat. So, a measure can contain one whole note or two half notes or four quarter notes or eight eighth notes or sixteen sixteenth notes or thirty two thirty second notes. Phew!! Ditto for rests. One quarter note can equal two eights or four sixteenths or eight thirty second notes. To put it another way. Later Dr.Den
 
Thanks!

This is all very useful, but I think it is the limitations of the PS02 drum machine that is my problem. There are only four rests available: 1/4,/2/4,/3/4,/4/4 and 5/4 therefore eighth note and sixteenth note rests aren't possible. Also you cannot change anything within a measure, a rest or fill (of whatever length) is regarded as a measure in itself, and you have to add it at exactlty the right point in the pattern for it to sound right.

My songs require pauses to add dynamism (a short rest between a soft chord sequence and a hard riff, for example) or to give the singer a breather , and often a drum fill is the only natural way to segue from the verse to the chorus or the bridge back to the main part of the song, so it's frustrating not being able to get this right.
 
I've never used a PS02, but I find it very puzzling that a drum machine only allows 1/4 notes. Many machines allow you to set the machine to 1/4 notes or 1/8 notes etc. Is it possible that your machine has a default of 1/4 which you need to adjust?
 
Mikeh, the PS02 doesn't really have a drum machine as such, just a collection of drum and bass patterns that have adjustable tempo and key signatures. It's a pretty limited device in this area, although just as good as a POD say, as an amp modelling device.
 
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